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Guys. It can't be proven that he does exist without a doubt and it can't be proven that he doesn't exist without a doubt.

Dark Lord wrote:Hey. No double posting.

Sorry last four times I got ninja and i assumed I would be again

The same could be said to religion as a whole.

We are backing it up, the big bang could be god saying let their be light

The garden of eden makes sense in the fact that it seems all life started in the same place
even creation follows the order in which life evolved
So we are backing up
we cant back it all up of course (you cant back up where the big bang came form)
it dont make either one "wrong"
but YOU can try to back up your claim that the bible has been "changed"
so do so now please
Heck fi someone said that "the laws of nature" had been changed I'd ask them to back it up

becuse those can be "proven true or not"

Prove that god exists, then.

Never said I could just saying that neither one can disprove the other
The off chane (fdor you) that a super powerful being exist
even if its not a "god" do you not think if they wanted to they could make us live longer?

I mean no disrespect but your really seem to be getting quite worked up

So your saying that Earth's people once lived in paradise? What, was it God's bad hair day so he put us in what we live in today?

Hey, he said the meaning changed. Not that the words changed.

Wolfie wrote:

Dark Lord wrote:Hey. No double posting.

Sorry last four times I got ninja and i assumed I would be again

The same could be said to religion as a whole.

We are backing it up, the big bang could be god saying let their be light

The garden of eden makes sense in the fact that it seems all life started in the same place
even creation follows the order in which life evolved
So we are backing up
we cant back it all up of course (you cant back up where the big bang came form)
it dont make either one "wrong"
but YOU can try to back up your claim that the bible has been "changed"
so do so now please

You can't back up where god came from either.

What do you mean by "changed?" And do you want me to list reasons why god isn't real? Or the religion? I don't understand.

Remember guys. This is a discussion. Not a debate.

Arch-Mage Matt wrote:So your saying that Earth's people once lived in paradise? What, was it God's bad hair day so he put us in what we live in today?

No they ate the fruit of knowledge and with the knowledge came death and no more parricide
Really this is uncalled for either
A. you really dont know the bible
B. this is really a mean kick to any Christian, as almsot evrey one knows the story fo adma and eve

Hey, he said the meaning changed. Not that the words changed.

he can show that also
Where has the bible meaning changed? if you mean OT to NT it was prophesied in the OT to be so


Matt exspalin whats the deference? I'm un sure
is it possible to Discus the bible "chancing meanings?

Wolfie wrote:

Arch-Mage Matt wrote:So your saying that Earth's people once lived in paradise? What, was it God's bad hair day so he put us in what we live in today?

No they ate the fruit of knowledge and with the knowledge came death and no more parricide
Really this is uncalled for either
A. you really dont know the bible
B. this is really a mean kick to any Christian, as almsot evrey one knows the story fo adma and eve

Hey, he said the meaning changed. Not that the words changed.

he can show that also
Where has the bible meaning changed? if you mean OT to NT it was prophesied in the OT to be so

Waffle, please. You're going to get this thread locked.
Chill.

If I were to believe in an afterlife, it would be just an 'afterlife'. The idea of heaven and hell is pretty dumb IMO.

I'm just pointing it out, Wolfie... because of what one person did, every single human is cursed forever. Kind of copies Pandora's Box if you ask me.

Pandora's box also released hope.

born2beagator wrote:Take for example the gospels

Which ones? There are alot more than just the canonical ones.
The bible is a [manmade] pick'n'mix of ancient gospels who's stories compliment each other, but there are alot of non-canonical, controversial, gospels. *cough*
There's alot of debate on the canonical gospels' time period, aswell. Higher criticism tends to place them at very different times than they're interpreted as a majority of Christians do.

The bible really isn't any solid argument for anything, it gets to much limelight that it's been ripped to shreds ([heretically] metaphorically, lol) by now, and all it has standing is the "parable" view, which imo is just another defensive backpeddle. We'll give it a couple of decades, though.

And what parents do that? That's the most hypocritical thing ever. If your parents gave you the option to smoke or not, then you started smoking and they grounded you, would you not find that slightly strange?

In what way is the other way worse, sure it is for us, but we're personally biased. Speculating from God's P.O.V. (Oh no, you can't do that, he's not like us) it would be easier for him to get his "desired results" if we had no choice.

If you sell a guy a gun and he shoots that person you are a part of the chain of events that led to the shooting, same as the one who made the gun, and delivered it to the store. Going back the chain it'll always lead back to God.
You aren't legally responsible, but if you found out that someone you gave a gun to shot someone, wouldn't you feel guilty?
Do you think Mr. Leslie Groves, who made the nuke, isn't responsible for Hiroshima? He wasn't on the plane that dropped it.
He's not responsible?

I think if there is a God that he doesn't have rules, he's omnipotent [and that] so he'll see everything from the perspective you see it through, he'll understand everything you've done, he'll understand when you're sorry, and he'll understand YOUR views of wrong/right. Since what is wrong/right is a personal view he'll, collectively, see all as wrong/right, hence he'll have no rules.

I never said the Bible has changed, btw, I only said that how people use it and perceive it has.
Did Moses split the sea? Go back in time, ask someone, they'll say for sure he physically did.
Nowadays? Nah, it's just some metaphor for something.

Screw your ninjas, I'll repost later if there's something else. lol

VirtualWeasel wrote:Waffle, please. You're going to get this thread locked.
Chill.

What am i doing wrong?
Matt just said its cause "God had a bad hair day?"

I'm not attacking anyone or doing anything wrong

If I were to believe in an afterlife, it would be just an 'afterlife'. The idea of heaven and hell is pretty dumb IMO.

I'm just pointing it out, Wolfie... because of what one person did, every single human is cursed forever. Kind of copies Pandora's Box if you ask me.

The reason for that is if he "took away" the knowledge
then it would not be free will They choice
sin was around before then
Sin was around since he made free will
Sin is disobeying god
in reality any one could have and dose disobey god
your sins are your own

If the bible is you proof, then your relying on some really hard to believe stuff.

1. There was a paradise, with two people in it, a talking snake, and an apple that cursed humanity from being in paradise.
2. A 600 year old man built a boat and collected every animal and brought them on board.
3. A virgin gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus had 4 brothers and and unknown amount of sisters.
4. God is all loving, yet he has satan torture his non believers, condones slavery, rape and pedophilia, floods the earth and commits many many more atrocities.
5. It is a sin to shave or cut your hair. (depending on translation.)

Wolfie wrote:

VirtualWeasel wrote:Waffle, please. You're going to get this thread locked.
Chill.

What am i doing wrong?
Matt just said its cause "God had a bad hair day?"

I'm not attacking anyone or doing anything wrong

It's not just you. Certain people are provoking it.

It was just a joke, actually. But I know jokes and religion don't mix well.

I agree with a previous argument here. God: "I have given you free will. Use it do do anything else that what I command and you are eternally damned. Have a pleasant life, Christians."

Which ones? There are alot more than just the canonical ones.
The bible is a [manmade] pick'n'mix of ancient gospels who's stories compliment each other, but there are alot of non-canonical, controversial, gospels. *cough*
There's alot of debate on the canonical gospels' time period, aswell. Higher criticism tends to place them at very different times than they're interpreted as a majority of Christians do.

So just cause someone writes soemthing (years after the fact)
it must be part of it?
All of those Gospesl where writing later, and have parts that contradict the rest Also ween we say God's word we refer to it has God speaking a lot not that he physical wrote it

The bible really isn't any solid argument for anything, it gets to much limelight that it's been ripped to shreds ([heretically] metaphorically, lol) by now, and all it has standing is the "parable" view, which imo is just another defensive backpeddle. We'll give it a couple of decades, though

.Show me some of these isntad of just syaing
"it has been torn to shred
"been proven false"
"been proven false"
show me show some proof
because saying its been torn to shreds imo is just another defensive backpeddle.

And what parents do that? That's the most hypocritical thing ever. If your parents gave you the option to smoke or not, then you started smoking and they grounded you, would you not find that slightly strange?

Not really

In what way is the other way worse, sure it is for us, but we're personally biased. Speculating from God's P.O.V. (Oh no, you can't do that, he's not like us) it would be easier for him to get his "desired results" if we had no choice.

Yes it would but God is not about the easy path
he is about love and whats love if it is forced?

If you sell a guy a gun and he shoots that person you are a part of the chain of events that led to the shooting, same as the one who made the gun, and delivered it to the store. Going back the chain it'll always lead back to God.
You aren't legally responsible, but if you found out that someone you gave a gun to shot someone, wouldn't you feel guilty?

I'd feel remorse
just like God dose

Do you think Mr. Leslie Groves, who made the nuke, isn't responsible for Hiroshima? He wasn't on the plane that dropped it.
He's not responsible?

A guy makes a cure for Cancer
a man takes it and uses it to make more types of cancer
the first guy used it for good
E.X God gave us free will
and then we use it for bad

I think if there is a God that he doesn't have rules, he's omnipotent [and that] so he'll see everything from the perspective you see it through, he'll understand everything you've done, he'll understand when you're sorry, and he'll understand YOUR views of wrong/right. Since what is wrong/right is a personal view he'll, collectively, see all as wrong/right, hence he'll have no rules.

So then we all go to hevean?
Hitler was right?
I'm not saying that that god is not real
maybe he is
But I dont see hitler eing a good guy

I never said the Bible has changed, btw, I only said that how people use it and perceive it has.
Did Moses split the sea? Go back in time, ask someone, they'll say for sure he physically did.
Nowadays? Nah, it's just some metaphor for something.

I believe he truly did, don't stereotype Christians I see a lot of pepole mad when Christians stereotype homosexuals or atheist
Even if you dont belive in him you must admit one of the best words of wisdom
"do on to toher"

Wolfie wrote:Even if you dont belive in him you must admit one of the best words of wisdom
"do on to toher"

That's just a moral though. Its not like that thought is owned by the christian faith.

zzfallens wrote:If the bible is you proof, then your relying on some really hard to believe stuff.

1. There was a paradise, with two people in it, a talking snake, and an apple that cursed humanity from being in paradise.
2. A 600 year old man built a boat and collected every animal and brought them on board.
3. A virgin gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus had 4 brothers and and unknown amount of sisters.
4. God is all loving, yet he has satan torture his non believers, condones slavery, rape and pedophilia, floods the earth and commits many many more atrocities.
5. It is a sin to shave or cut your hair. (depending on translation.)

Let me ask you this whats more likely?
the fact that there is a all powerful being? and if so all above are no problem what so ever

or that billions and billions and billions of years ago
an exsplaoin happen in space (was there even space? where did it come form?)
Caused massive heat and plasma and what not
made evrye single thing in the unverse
planets formed form nothing and then rock was amde (how did the basses get there?)
how did gravity work at first? what started it?
then these masive "rocks" formed lines and had a huge "sun" most of the time
these said rocks cooled and of all of the places and all of the rocks
ours hapeens to be in a sweet spot like you wont belive
THEN life came to our world, how? no one knows, that life evolved and then formed some more and more
billions and billon of years later we are formed
We hapeen to be alive right now typing

now i think you agree both are .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% possible it seems
but which one only requires one thing to be true?I'm going by odds
I've sene my luck and others no one or thing is that lucky

"Do unto others.."
It's called the golden rule. Many religions have a variation of it.

Wolfie wrote:[
Yes it would but God is not about the easy path
he is about love and whats love if it is forced?

He did forced us to exist as we are, why would it be wrong for him to force us as being different? That makes no sense. Plus, if he CREATED (isn't it the whole point of God?) us, no matter how he creates us, after the deed, how he created us is irrelevant to us being forced or not. The moment we are, us being forced or not depends on what God does subsequently. Thus there's nothing about God forcing us in that example.

Wolfie wrote: Let me ask you this whats more likely?
the fact that there is a all powerful being? and if so all above are no problem what so ever

or that billions and billions and billions of years ago
an exsplaoin happen in space (was there even space? where did it come form?)
Caused massive heat and plasma and what not
made evrye single thing in the unverse
planets formed form nothing and then rock was amde (how did the basses get there?)
how did gravity work at first? what started it?
then these masive "rocks" formed lines and had a huge "sun" most of the time
these said rocks cooled and of all of the places and all of the rocks
ours hapeens to be in a sweet spot like you wont belive
THEN life came to our world, how? no one knows, that life evolved and then formed some more and more
billions and billon of years later we are formed
We hapeen to be alive right now typing

now i think you agree both are .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% possible it seems
but which one only requires one thing to be true?I'm going by odds
I've sene my luck and others no one or thing is that lucky

Why can't the Universe be a self-contained being? Why does he need a creator more than God needs a creator. I fail to see what is so hard to believe about the Big Bang when there is so much evidence towards it, while the Genesis could be a fable written by some random dude for all we know. But Big Bang of not, the Universe doesn't need a creator to exist, and I think it's a key point.

Damn. Double post.

Wolfie, that last arguement made me think of a Family Guy quote. Ahem.

Scientists believe the Universe was created by --GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD-- -ig bang.

That needed to be said. Good night.

Holy cow!!! This thread went crazy

Why did I have to go to the doctor today? Darn my gimp leg.

Anyway I have noticed something. Many of you, on every side of the issue, have not studied the Bible or ancient history. I guess I will leave this thread alone, for the sheer lack of true details, when details are presented, is making my knowledgable head hurt.

JockoBeans wrote:Holy cow!!! This thread went crazy

Why did I have to go to the doctor today? Darn my gimp leg.

Anyway I have noticed something. Many of you, on every side of the issue, have not studied the Bible or ancient history. I guess I will leave this thread alone, for the sheer lack of true details, when details are presented, is making my knowledgable head hurt.

It's one reason why I'm really just a casual observer jumping in to make quick comments and explain my own beliefs.

Wolfie wrote:

zzfallens wrote:If the bible is you proof, then your relying on some really hard to believe stuff.

1. There was a paradise, with two people in it, a talking snake, and an apple that cursed humanity from being in paradise.
2. A 600 year old man built a boat and collected every animal and brought them on board.
3. A virgin gave birth to Jesus, and Jesus had 4 brothers and and unknown amount of sisters.
4. God is all loving, yet he has satan torture his non believers, condones slavery, rape and pedophilia, floods the earth and commits many many more atrocities.
5. It is a sin to shave or cut your hair. (depending on translation.)

Let me ask you this whats more likely?
the fact that there is a all powerful being? and if so all above are no problem what so ever

or that billions and billions and billions of years ago
an exsplaoin happen in space (was there even space? where did it come form?)
Caused massive heat and plasma and what not
made evrye single thing in the unverse
planets formed form nothing and then rock was amde (how did the basses get there?)
how did gravity work at first? what started it?
then these masive "rocks" formed lines and had a huge "sun" most of the time
these said rocks cooled and of all of the places and all of the rocks
ours hapeens to be in a sweet spot like you wont belive
THEN life came to our world, how? no one knows, that life evolved and then formed some more and more
billions and billon of years later we are formed
We hapeen to be alive right now typing

now i think you agree both are .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% possible it seems
but which one only requires one thing to be true?I'm going by odds
I've sene my luck and others no one or thing is that lucky

Sorry, but that isn't how the theory goes at all. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang before you talk about it.

Just like you saying

Wolfie wrote:No they ate the fruit of knowledge and with the knowledge came death and no more parricide
Really this is uncalled for either
A. you really dont know the bible
B. this is really a mean kick to any Christian, as almsot evrey one knows the story fo adma and eve

So to you, that was "uncalled" for either
A. you don't know the big bang theory
B. this is really a mean kick to any Atheist or Scientist, as almost everyone knows the story of the big bang.

Edit: wrong link