If the Empire was forced to disband who would takeover?

[The Dog Whisperer]

Who says you have to conquer the whole country? With the outer cities and the ones accessible by rivers conquered the invaders could simply wait out the Argonians, it's only a matter of time before the now extremely densely populated areas are forced to try and conquer something back. By which time the invaders will have settled in nicely, gotten defenses up etc.

How willing do you think your troops will be to stay in Black Marsh. Think about it: the constant death due to disease, the stench of the marsh, the constant threat of voriplasms and Swamp Leviathans, as well as the constant biting of flesh flies. Also, it rains alot in Black Marsh, so they would constantly be wet.

Which is why I pointed out that your morale will be low too, it cancels out the whole thing (If it doesn't give an advantage to the invaders) because both sides are low. So morale doesn't count for anything here, unless it gets so low that they declare a truce... but I doubt that would happen.

Constant water walking spells and disease resist spells would use up alot of magicka, and during fights, if your using your magicka to walk on water, your not going to have as much to cast damaging spells. What about when they have to sleep? Your still in the bog, where are you going to sleep.

It would cost a lot of magicka, but with enough mages itcould be done. I think that depends on the invading army, if it's Altmer or Bretons it'd be possible, but probably not for Redguard or Orsimer. Unless some alliances have been made...
And if the Argonians are defending, why would they be fighting out in the middle of the swamps? They would be defending the major towns and cities, whether the fight's inside or outside the place I can't say, but I doubt the marsh is as bad around the actualy cities, land that is stable enough to be built on.
As for sleeping, the place can't be 100% bog and marsh, even looking at a map of it on the Imperial Library shows me there's mountains, so probably dry land.

Also, you've forgotten the flesh flies. While they may not be that harmful while moving, while sleeping it would be easy for them to snack on your troops flesh.

Maybe the invaders have mosquito nets? But I'm sure there's some form of protection against them, and if there isn't, one would quickly be made.

[Teinaava]

And if the Argonians are defending, why would they be fighting out in the middle of the swamps? They would be defending the major towns and cities, whether the fight's inside or outside the place I can't say, but I doubt the marsh is as bad around the actualy cities, land that is stable enough to be built on.

While fighting major cities, would be done inside them (if you can get in), smaller villages are built in the bog. With Argonian troops stationed there as well as some of the villagers, you'd be fighting them in the bog. Also, if you look at Leyawiin, the ground looks muddy and there are small ponds. So, even in cities, your troops would still have to be fighting in bog conditions, just not as boggy as the area outside.

As for sleeping, the place can't be 100% bog and marsh, even looking at a map of it on the Imperial Library shows me there's mountains, so probably dry land.

The areas with what appears to be mountains, are around the center of Black Marsh. Also, these may not be mountains, but hills, which may be less boggy than the surrounding areas, but still a bog. In terms of other dry land, the area in Black Marsh is probably like the area surrounding Leyawiin, only wetter and more boggy. So, there may be patches of "dry land", but I doubt there would be enough for your whole army to sleep in one place. You'd have to divide them into smaller groups and have them more spread out. This making them eaiser targets for Argonian assassins. Also, when it rains, these areas will become boggy like the rest of Black Marsh, only slightly less so.

[theArgonianguy]

well the Argonians wont be able(or very hard) to take over the empire....if they 'do they wont be able to hold it for long..as for invading the Black Marsh that is a total diffrent story and it wont be the easiest province to take in fact it might be one of the hardest.....if we look it TESIV:oblivion way nobody can create a resist deseas or constant water walking without reducing ALOT of the invading army magicka ....plus argonians can just go under water while an army is boating/marching in..... and just sneak /ambush them causing devastation....and by getting from high rock/hammerfell to Argonia without argonians knowing of the upcoming invasion is ridiculous...like im sure the argonian would know before the armies to reach them and they would prepare...The Shadowscale would kill some soldier during your sleep and something i hate the most is people thinking argonian are primitive like creature and arent able to fght /be strong....in a huge province like Argonia i doubt u wont find a strong very very very challenging militia/resistance/argonian/army they can fight too...

in other word Black Marsh will be hard to take over.....BUT ...BUT if the empire was to fall id think the Akivirian (can we say that ) would surely invade Tamriel and probably win...

[The Dog Whisperer]

I never said it would be easy, just that it's perfectly possible. And I never said they were weak or primitive.

Plus, if you're going the "TES IV:Oblivion" way,you can;t sneak in the water.
They would know the invaders were coming, but that won't change much. I was basing all my things on both sides being prepared. If you take amushes into account then it's perfectly reasonable that it can happen to the Argonians just as much as they can do the same.

[theArgonianguy]

no no no not u dog whisperer but people that play oblivion in general....even my friends (that play oblivion and dont respect my choice!!! ) say this -__-; but generaly people say tthat argonian s*ck and i just feel sorry (start playing a sad classic type music)for the poor ol' argonian who fight racism evryday workin hard to feed his 3 children and gettin enough coin to get his brother that was sent to jail in leyawiin even tho he did nothin and praying that his wife is in heaven after being beatento death by guards just cuz she stole a loaf of bread (ok u can stop that music now....)
lol lol jokes ...now back on topic... what i meant by "sneaking in the water " is like imagine some let say...redguard walkin near a swap/river/lake/wtv argonian could hide in the water...wait til redguard pass them ..get out of water sneak and shoot arrow...

[Wolf]

First of all I would like to praise everyone who has been on either side of the Alliance/Argonian warfare subject section of this topic. I value debate and I enjoy it very much so it's always welcome in my book. All three of you have valid points and I would like to make some counter points.

On the subject of water walking: There is a passage in the book "The Last Year of the First Era" that deals with this topic. When the Empire was fighting to take the fortresses of Ald Iuval and Ald Malak, they had an entire section within their army devoted to Mysticism that allowed the entire army to walk beneath the water and literally underneath Vivec's feet to get to the fortresses without facing the army the God had gathered. This same tactic could be applied here with a special group of Mysticism "Psijics", if you will, to cast spells on the Allied army.

On the subject of small Villages in the Marsh: The small villages would not be any threat to the Alliance, nor would they ever be a target. The main cities would be the ones besieged and the small villages would follow suit or run away as soon as their closest city was taken. Furthermore, a country is considered to have fallen when its capital is taken. Gideon is not that far into Argonia, in fact, it is almost at the border. The Alliance need only take that and a few more strategic points, such as Stormhold, which could be approached from the north, and Lilmoth, from the sea. Others most likely to be taken would be Archon, easily from the sea, Soulrest, once again from the sea and Thorn, from the sea. Helstrom could be a target, but it is inland a ways, and though it could be assaulted by an armada, the Alliance would probably not want to spend much money on something that will eventually happen for less. A tactic that would be most definitely used would be a blockade to prevent any income from reaching the province. Nevertheless, after Argonia's three major cities are taken, it would only be a matter of time before the rest of the country either surrendered or collapsed from recession.

On the subject of disease and flies: Once again Bretons are very skilled at magic and could devote an entire section to protecting and healing from disease. The armies would not have to venture far into Argonia to take their key places, so it would not be that much of a problem.

And thus, Argonia falls the way all countries fall: By being taken over by a greedy third party, or collapse from dissent.

[Teinaava]

On the subject of water walking: There is a passage in the book "The Last Year of the First Era" that deals with this topic. When the Empire was fighting to take the fortresses of Ald Iuval and Ald Malak, they had an entire section within their army devoted to Mysticism that allowed the entire army to walk beneath the water and literally underneath Vivec's feet to get to the fortresses without facing the army the God had gathered. This same tactic could be applied here with a special group of Mysticism "Psijics", if you will, to cast spells on the Allied army.

Even so, that would only work in rivers. As I've said before, not all cities have access by rivers, and I'm not sure just how well water walking would work in marsh. Also, how would sleeping be achieved? There may be patches of "dry land", but I doubt there would be enough for your whole army to sleep in one place. You'd have to divide them into smaller groups and have them more spread out. This making them eaiser targets for Argonian assassins. Also, when it rains, these areas will become boggy like the rest of Black Marsh, only slightly less so.

Furthermore, a country is considered to have fallen when its capital is taken. Gideon is not that far into Argonia, in fact, it is almost at the border. The Alliance need only take that and a few more strategic points, such as Stormhold, which could be approached from the north, and Lilmoth, from the sea. Others most likely to be taken would be Archon, easily from the sea, Soulrest, once again from the sea and Thorn, from the sea. Helstrom could be a target, but it is inland a ways, and though it could be assaulted by an armada, the Alliance would probably not want to spend much money on something that will eventually happen for less. A tactic that would be most definitely used would be a blockade to prevent any income from reaching the province.

Even if you do manage to take those cities, the rest of the Argonians could just retreat into Argonia's inner swamps. They probably wouldn't have to worry about income. Most Argonians in Argonia are sustenance farmers. They would be able to live in the inner swamps for a long time. Your troops, which would be holding the other cities, would probably get tired of waiting for the Argonians to surrender, before the Argonians began to dissent or the country collapses from recession.

On the subject of disease and flies: Once again Bretons are very skilled at magic and could devote an entire section to protecting and healing from disease. The armies would not have to venture far into Argonia to take their key places, so it would not be that much of a problem.

Having entire sections just for water walking and disease healing, wouldn't be very probable. The "Mysticism Psijics" would be using up supplies and wouldn't be attributing that much to fighting. Also, the disease healers would have to constanly protect against disease, otherwise you soldiers could die from it. As not much is known about diseases in Argonia, there could be a disease, whose symptoms aren't noticeable until they're to close to death to do anything about it. There could also be diseases that the healers wouldn't be able to cure.

[theArgonianguy]

yea he holds a point there xD well he holds sevral points ok then the alliance would take over but still im pretty sure it wont be able to hold on the might of Akivir ...it tried to take ove Tamriel sevral time but was pushed back by the Legion...the legion now broken i doubt that even the allie's would fight it.....and finding the former empire in disarray im pretty sure other race like maomer(and others races attacking other provinces/country) knowing that the altmer wont be so defended by the legion, maybe...just maybe the former empire would clash in a world war where major wars occur s cuz evry1 want a piece of land or want to have more power and the alliance will try to control it but with all the invasion/rebilion alll will be lost MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lol welll maybe thats a lil exagerated but.....im pretty sure sevral race coming from sevral continent will try to claim Tamriel as their own....

[Jaymundo]

It would be the nords! No question about it, they love to fight and would jump at the chance to take over.

[Teinaava]

I think the Nords are too fractured to take over Tamriel. They wouldn't be able to come together to create a military effective enough to conquer Tamriel.

[dajackal07]

alot of people seem to be saying argonians and so am i

btw nords are to drunk to have an army

[Wolf]

First of all I would like to address this:

Even if you do manage to take those cities, the rest of the Argonians could just retreat into Argonia's inner swamps. They probably wouldn't have to worry about income. Most Argonians in Argonia are sustenance farmers. They would be able to live in the inner swamps for a long time. Your troops, which would be holding the other cities, would probably get tired of waiting for the Argonians to surrender, before the Argonians began to dissent or the country collapses from recession.

To address this I will say that troops do not get tired of holding cities, there is a word for the permanent holding of cities throughout war called "occupation". That is what would commence. Furthermore, soldiers do what their countries tell them to do. There is no such thing as getting bored waiting for something to happen in the army. The other fault in this theory is that subsistence farming will take care of the food, but nothing else. There are a great deal of things that countries cannot get on their own. This is what imports are for. Without trade Argonia would suffocate, inner province or not.

As for sleeping, I do not believe there is a need. A good supply of restore fatigue potions and a few mass-affect spells would do them well, and since only one army would be taking one city, they could take at least 3 cities at a tame. An invasion taking Gideon, Stormhold and Lilmoth at the same time would startle the Argonians into low morale, fear, and submission.

Having entire sections just for water walking and disease healing, wouldn't be very probable. The "Mysticism Psijics" would be using up supplies and wouldn't be attributing that much to fighting. Also, the disease healers would have to constanly protect against disease, otherwise you soldiers could die from it. As not much is known about diseases in Argonia, there could be a disease, whose symptoms aren't noticeable until they're to close to death to do anything about it. There could also be diseases that the healers wouldn't be able to cure.

The Mysticism Psijics would be used only for the purposed related directly to the army, as they were in 2920. They are not there to be used for attack. There are entire sections of our U.S. army currently that are not used for attack. It is one of the mainstays in strategic fighting and, indeed, it would be very hard to defend a country if you used everyone just for attacking. As for the disease healers and protectors, the spells they cast won't be needing maintenance every 5 minutes. Spells can last longer than that, and they would be devoted entirely to that subject. I don't think they would need much because 1 or 1 1/2 days march into Argonia isn't going to release Pandora's Box, and once inside a city, more drastic measure could be taken against disease and flies.

[Teinaava]

To address this I will say that troops do not get tired of holding cities, there is a word for the permanent holding of cities throughout war called "occupation". That is what would commence. Furthermore, soldiers do what their countries tell them to do. There is no such thing as getting bored waiting for something to happen in the army.

I didn't mean that so mush as getting bored as after a while morale would lower and your troops would begin to desent, due to the constant death due to disease, the stench of the marsh, the constant threat of voriplasms, hackwings, and Swamp Leviathans, as well as the constant biting of flesh flies. Also, it rains alot in Black Marsh, so they would constantly be wet, and being wet constantly can lead to diseases such as trench foot.

The other fault in this theory is that subsistence farming will take care of the food, but nothing else. There are a great deal of things that countries cannot get on their own. This is what imports are for. Without trade Argonia would suffocate, inner province or not.

What would Argonians have to import that would be necessary for their survival?

As for sleeping, I do not believe there is a need. A good supply of restore fatigue potions and a few mass-affect spells would do them well, and since only one army would be taking one city, they could take at least 3 cities at a tame. An invasion taking Gideon, Stormhold and Lilmoth at the same time would startle the Argonians into low morale, fear, and submission.

Restore fatigue spells would work like energy drinks, they will allow you to remain awake longer and be more focused, but eventually you will have to sleep. You can't substitue restore fatigue for sleep, or they could just eat a couple of apples and would no longer be tired at all.

The Mysticism Psijics would be used only for the purposed related directly to the army, as they were in 2920. They are not there to be used for attack. There are entire sections of our U.S. army currently that are not used for attack. It is one of the mainstays in strategic fighting and, indeed, it would be very hard to defend a country if you used everyone just for attacking. As for the disease healers and protectors, the spells they cast won't be needing maintenance every 5 minutes. Spells can last longer than that, and they would be devoted entirely to that subject. I don't think they would need much because 1 or 1 1/2 days march into Argonia isn't going to release Pandora's Box

They would still need to cast spells very often, which would quickly become monotonous and they could eaisly forget to cast a spell, which could leave them vulnerable to disease long enough for one of them to catch it. Also, as little is known about the diseases in Argonia, your spells might not be able to cure/prevent them.

and once inside a city, more drastic measure could be taken against disease and flies

What measures could be taken?

[theArgonianguy]

The other fault in this theory is that subsistence farming will take care of the food, but nothing else. There are a great deal of things that countries cannot get on their own. This is what imports are for. Without trade Argonia would suffocate, inner province or not.

What would Argonians have to import that would be necessary for their survival?

well they can live of food but if they retreat (and i still like argonians ) they will leav many weapons/iteam so what wolf says is kinda true but what teineeva says is also true .... an argonian need food and hes ready to fight to the death guerrila style (i dont deny the fact that they will stil need weapons) and i personaly doubt the fact that argonian would stand alone in such conflict i mean....other provinces are about do be destroyed by an alliance...wouldnt it be best to just ally what remain of the empire to fight back and break the alliance? argonian will constantly be supplied....plus their is some "dirty weapon/iteams/other useful stuff trades" and people often make this mistakes shadowscales are the argonian army....no they'r not ...they are like the DB but kickin it argonian style so i doubt they wouldnt help their brethren in both supplies and military....many of the alliance general would be assisnated by the shadowscale. a good shadowscale live to kill and die to c it killed (hey that maybe probably i hope kool line?) and knowing of the invasion plan the Argonian are a tricky race that will surely place some traps and stop as much as possible or weaken the invader's before they reahc a dangerous location ary size or advantage


i said it before i will say it again argonian will probably team up with sevral army that do not tolerate the fact an alliance is made ( 2 provinces) to crush and lead the former empire...other provinces might ...i said MIGHT not help Argonia military wise but it will supply it as much as possible and even if Wolf ( no offense there buddy just a constructive comment hope u dont mind ) says that the other provinces would be destroyed be4 invading argonian....
1st if so the invader would be majorly tired and unsupplied .... knowing the fate of the provinces that fell, argonia would quickly be on the offensive and take advantage to push back or atleast sevrely weaken the alliance already werry army...
2-after two other provinces fall theyd just alll team up and i think that skyrim tribes wouldnt mind allying themself one last time(i dont think they evr did but hey it sound kool doesent it ? ) and help their fellow provinces ....
3-leaving your army (kinda of releated to point 2...) all the way down to Argonian might cuz an uprising in the other claimed territories like the war torn /destroyed elswyr for exemple causing dissaray in the alliance because of the army abscense or minimal authority and the former alliance's (of the other provinces ,not wolf's alliance i mean skyrim,morrowin BM, etc etc.......) and try to take over or rid the province of its occupants....

[Wolf]

Argonian, the Alliance would attack Argnonia first and they would barely see it coming. I don't think any provinces would support any other in a war which would be attributed to the fact that they no longer have a main government and would be focusing on domestic policy.

Teinaava, troops are not affected by dissent, they do not get dissented and they barely know the meaning of the word. The Redguards, especially, are trained to be in armies that rival The United Kingdom in discipline. The Psijics are no exception. the word "Psijic" origionates from the Summerset Isle and typically Psijics study magic like it's their duty, so I don't think casting a spell would slip their mind, and I don't think running out of magicka would be a problem. You're trying to neutralize the strategy with trivial things. Like I said, they would only attack the larger cities, and it would take a day and a half, at most, to get to any one city. For those cities that are on the coast, they will fall immediately do to bombardment.

Every country has vital things that can only be obtained through importation. Argonia, for instance, would need cloth, keys, heal potions, any manner of things. Added to the fact that they could not export items to bring in revenue, the country would fall into a recession. "To wage war three things are needed: money, money, and more money." The only thing the Argonians could do, if they refuse to surrender, would be to lie back and wait for all of their own to die.

As for the restore fatigue situation, you gave me a tip and I'll take it. They would have apples.

Resist and cure disease applies to all disease, I imagine the spell works as a second immune system, where any foreign and hostile substance that enters the body would be sicked upon and killed. The swamp monsters would not be a problem due to the fact that the armies would use main roads and avoid deep swamp areas as best they could.

The more dramatic action to be taken would be to research these diseases in a sterile environment and find vaccines.

[Kinzer]

This debate has gotten considerably intense. I'm embarrassed to say this but it's far beyond on my understanding of the Elder Scrolls universe. However, I'm going to have at it. Whichever race were to actually take over the Empire, let's say the Dunmer. So they've conquered Skyrim, High Rock, Hammerfell, Elsweyr, etc. Now after they've done all this, the next logical step would be to turn their attention to Black Marsh. Now, all of you have made excellent points as to whether or not a particular race could take over Black Marsh, but would they. If the Dunmer had control over the entire Empire, except Black Marsh, would invading be completely necessary. What would the land have to offer? There would have to be a better reason then "because it's there." As far as I can tell from previous posts, the only thing there is disease and swamp water. Not to forget potential slaves of course. Now, I know this is sort of off-topic from the "what race could concur Black Marsh" argument, but that was way out of my league, so I went with a different approach.

[dajackal07]

1. whos in the alliance im rly lost

2. i would think the kajhiit would team up wit the argonians considering they share common goals or am i wrong cause i now there is tension between the two races in Leyawin.

[bloodsteve353]

I'm pretty sure Khajiits and Argonians hate each other. A good point was made before, why take over the Black Marsh? In my opinion, no matter which race took over the rest of Tamriel, they would see no need for taking over the Black Marsh. All that would be needed is to take all the Argonians in Tamriel and breed them for slaves(thats only if the Black Marsh was being invaded purely for slaves).

If however you were to invade the Black Marsh, you would invade from the outer rim and move slowly inward. I've heard all the previous points and they're all valid but what about not an army going in?

What about a force similar to mercenaries? About 10 or so guys would head in suited up, with resist disease, resist poison, mages, and strong enough warriors to make their way through it. They wouldn't have to take all of the Black Marsh immediately, just take town, or city or whatnot then take up residence in that city.

Now imagine 10 or so of these strike forces going through the Black Marsh taking it, they would stand a serious chance.

[Arzock]

I wish We could make this. A giant online capture the flag game all the races versus each other Altmer would so win!

[Teinaava]

Every country has vital things that can only be obtained through importation. Argonia, for instance, would need cloth, keys, heal potions, any manner of things.

Keys could probably be made by them, if they wanted them. I don't think they're very important to their survival. They could make their own healing potions. Dragon's Tongue and Fly Amanita Cap both grow near Black Marsh, and probably grorw in it.

Resist and cure disease applies to all disease, I imagine the spell works as a second immune system, where any foreign and hostile substance that enters the body would be sicked upon and killed.

Not all diseases can be cured by cure disease. Blight Diseases can only be cured with a Cure Blight Disease or resisted with a Resist Blight Disease. There's probably diseases there that the spells your healers are equiped with, wouldn't cure/resist.

i would think the kajhiit would team up wit the argonians considering they share common goals or am i wrong cause i now there is tension between the two races in Leyawin.

The tension between Argonians and Khajiits in Leyawiin is because of a Nord named Eitar.

[theArgonianguy]

and what if the Argonian and let say....dunmer make an alliance ? and they go on the offensive ...? if you got a good argonian leader and has a good allies and is supllied by both weapons and food/potion etc and they go on the offensive be4 the alliance (breton and redguads) they might win ....people (maybe not in this thread but in general ) always think that the Argonian cannot fight well or invade....hey you never know, all they need is a little push ....they might take over atleast say leyawiin-bravil-blackwood region and then press on to elsweyr while the dunmer move north to get the help of sevral tribes in skyrim who will then help them in the invasion of highrock while the argonian with the wealth of those territories would press on to valenwood and supply the dunmer invasion with both supplies and troops .....etc..im just saying people sousestimate the argonians ...they can fight and they migth be on the offensive.......and mayb win or survive the alliance invasion....yea why not..? what if they survive the siege of the alliance ?the siege will surely not last a day ...not a single city gave up during a seiging after one day in the history of mankind(i know where talking about oblivion but its a fact in evry military invasion........) they would last way longer then this and until evry city fall's , argonian will have income. to stop their wealth u need to take evry city/major base/major outpost thus cutting its economy and if u siege lets say Gideon ur army is waaaaayy too far to get supply while in argonian their can be underground supply (blackmarket thingy) and as Teineeva said earlier they'll feed on farms and in the city they have weapons to defend themself .....

[bloodsteve353]

I'm on the Alliance side of this argument, but I personally see the Argonians winning this battle. They have survived up until this point alone, their natural defence in the Black Marsh is their greatest asset. On the point of vital things they need I don't see anything they need. But I also don't see the Khajiit being involved at all. If the Khajiit were to be part of the army, most likely they would be there under orders and once in the Black Marsh escape would be easy. However that doesn't mean that the Khajiit would aid the Argonians, they would be useless in Argonia. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bosmer played a vital role in this conflict, they're small, agile and with a water breathing spell become great soldiers in this siege.

What if the army slowly destroyed the Marsh itself? By cutting away the tree's it could slowly be taken apart. The manpower is there for it, so I don't see why this isn't a possibilty.

[Teinaava]

What if the army slowly destroyed the Marsh itself? By cutting away the tree's it could slowly be taken apart. The manpower is there for it, so I don't see why this isn't a possibilty.

Destroying an entire marsh would be very difficult. Also, you could destroy the trees and reeds, but it would still be a bog. If you could somehow, create a mcahine capable of draining the bog, it would take very long and an Argonian shadowscale could just sneak in and destroy it. Also, The Argonian Account, Book 2 says: "The horses eat some of the reed, and sometimes we set fire to it, but it just grows right back up." So I doubt that it could be done.

[Redguard_Master]

The altmer would certainly try their hand. They have that whole we used to be the bosses thing going on.

[The Dog Whisperer]

Wow. You guys have been busy. Or was I offline for ages?

I think fire'd be an easier way to destroy the place, magically induced, one proper fireball would take out a single tree, maybe more if they're close. But it wouldn't do the whole place in one go seeing as it's so damp...
So with enough mages, preferrably Breton or Altmer, you could take care of the trees quick, and water walking should work on a bog, the land is basically puddles and muddy err... mud. But as long as there was, say 10%, water in the ground, water walking should work, right?

Now, about this alliance thing... where'd that come from? I looked back, but can't see exactly what started it... Wasn't this a "The race that's going to rule Tamriel is invading Black Marsh," situation? Or was it an "An alliance of races is invading Black Marsh," thing? I don't mind if it's an alliance, just that if it is it completely changes the whole thing...