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CBR JGWRR wrote: Well yeah, the dragonborn DLC clearly shows it...

Hah, no it doesn't, it shows Kirkbride's non-canon lore being retconned for once.

legoless wrote:

CBR JGWRR wrote: Well yeah, the dragonborn DLC clearly shows it...

Hah, no it doesn't, it shows Kirkbride's non-canon lore being retconned for once.

I'm not going to argue about this, I know more about the surface of the moon than I do about the dunmer people...

:getmecoat:

All I do know has already been stated. Well not quite all, but most of it...

Yeah, MK's The Fall of Ald'Ruhn isn't really contradicted by the Dragonborn DLC.

I see it as load order of mods. If MK is refuted by in game sources or contemporary Beth Devs, then his post Beth work is overwritten, if it is not (like the Siege of Alinor, or The Fall) then I let MK's work on said subject stand.

The way I usually look at Kirkbride's stuff is that I only believe it if their isn't another alternative and if it makes sense. But then again I've always been kind of a "take things at face value" kinda guy.

SajuukKhar wrote:

legoless wrote:^ MK said they were destroyed. You can brush it off however you like, but it's a clear contradiction.

I think you should re-read that quote.

"Remember Redorn Never forget" does not imply they were wiped out entirely, just that they got their asses handed to them bad, which they did.

The implication that Redorn is gone entirely does not exist in that quote, period.

Even if it did not, you miss my point entirely. People believed that it did, as the talk of the House being 'decimated' and the sombre and ominous tagline seemed to indicate, and were all around mourning House Redoran. Even if MK does known what Bethesda are planning in great detail (which today I doubt) whether or not any of us are able to correctly interpret anything he says is a whole 'nother issue.

In my opinion, it's a fairly clear contradiction, for Bethesda to turn around and hand House Redoran so much power. It shows that MK does not necessarily have access to the lore direction Bethesda is currently following.

My guess is that Bethesda does not plan for the new Thalmor to remain simple villains for all time (despite the apparent 'dumbing down' of the series), and will in fact go back to lore like that of the Numidium which paints the Altmer in a more positive light. As such, as fascinating as MK's posts about them may be, whether they correlate with the direction Bethesda wishes to take is yet to be seen.

As I was trying to indicate when I mentioned Loranna's RP, just because devs are involved (Ted Peterson), and just because those currently employed by Bethesda devs include lore reminiscent of this fanfiction in future titles (Oblivion) does not mean that said fanfiction should be treated as lore, or is even reflective of Bethesda's greater plans for lore (as reflected by the fall of House Hlaalu and presumably their Twin Lamp aligned sympathises and their supporters amongst House Dres in the wake of the Argonian invasion).

Well, that's the thing, decimated by definition means that some survived. Enough to re-establish House Redoran, and enough to give the Skyrim DB contracts. You only need one Redoran survivor from the OC to bring the house back to its former glory. 200 years is a long time. I'm sure Redoran's ranks swelled after the Red Year, by many Dunmer refuges from many different houses. As for "REMEMBER REDORAN. NEVER FORGET," the same thing was said after the Alamo, and not only did Santa Anna not kill all of the Texans in Texas, he didn't even kill all of the defenders at the Alamo.

Guys, it's probably worth noting decimated means reduced by 1 tenth...

In Ancient Rome perhaps, yes I am well aware, but due to the evolution of the English language you'll find that this is no longer its common usage, and almost certainly not what MK meant, even if he did not mean completely wiped out. A more contemporary definition:

1. Kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage of.
2. Drastically reduce the strength or effectiveness of (something): "plant viruses that can decimate yields".

OblivionDuruza wrote:Hindsight is twenty-twenty Xarnac, but you still entirely miss my point, At the time, the general consensus of the community based on MK's work was that House Redoran was gone. You've only tendered more evidence in contradiction to this assumption, which is exactly what I am warning about when it comes to dealing with non-official, non-Bethesda 'lore', however authentic it might seem. The same is true with regard to Loranna's RP, as it is with MK.

I'm not talking about what this person or that group thought, just that MK's post and Skyrim's lore can and does coexist without contradicting one another. I'm going by what is written, and what can be deduced from what is written, none of which refutes anything from Skyrim. Decimated in no definition means totally annihilated. If there were survivors (which there were) it is reasonable that they could reestablished the House (which they did, as can be seen in Skyrim and the DB DLC). If MK intended something other than what was written, he could have chosen other words. Though it doesnt even necessarily matter what he intended, just what he said. And since he wrote this before Skyrim was even announced and it takes place 200 years before the events of Skyrim, MK's post's outcome is ambiguous at worst and easily accepted as non contradicting chronology at best.

I also see quite a difference between a Dev participating in a fan's forum RP (resulting in people "thinking" anything written in the RP is canon) and a Dev trying to contribute lore in a post or story (in a canonical way). If others couldn't then that's their bad, not the lore's. I should also add that I was replying to the posters at the top of the page and first page that said there was a current contradiction, not people warning of what is and isn't lore. Maybe there should be a class on lore order and when to override who's what?

Xarnac the Conqueror wrote:Though it doesnt even necessarily matter what he intended, just what he said. And since he wrote this before Skyrim was even announced and it takes place 200 years before the events of Skyrim, MK's post's outcome is ambiguous at worst and easily accepted as non contradicting chronology at best.

Why accept it at all when its intent was to portray a destroyed Redoran? This isn't an official book, it doesn't need to be reconciled. It's an example of when out-of-game sources are wrong.

Personally I dislike most of what I've seen that's attributed to MK, but Redoran was more than just Ald'Ruhn.

Honestly, one would expect the Daedra to have a rougher time outside Cyrodil than inside. Perhaps my views warped due to just playing Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim but the people of Cyrodil always came across as weaker and unprepared for shocks. In the long run they organize better and plan better and have better Hero's but, catch them off guard and they are going to lose badly. The Imperials are short lived and as a result it's easier for them to be caught off guard as they individually have less experience. Besides, the main Daedra objective was in Cyrodil why waste equally strong forces attacking elsewhere.

If the Daedra decimated something in Morrowind it'd be more likely to be Balmora.

legoless wrote:

Xarnac the Conqueror wrote:Though it doesnt even necessarily matter what he intended, just what he said. And since he wrote this before Skyrim was even announced and it takes place 200 years before the events of Skyrim, MK's post's outcome is ambiguous at worst and easily accepted as non contradicting chronology at best.

Why accept it at all when its intent was to portray a destroyed Redoran? This isn't an official book, it doesn't need to be reconciled. It's an example of when out-of-game sources are wrong.

Because its intent is unclear, but what is written is not. Decimated means some survived. Thus there are no real contradictions from MK's work to Skyrim.

Hey guys this is a thread about Numidium, let's try to keep it that way.

The numidium tiber septim used was not at full power, and was only a fraction of how strong the dwarves wanted it to be. Considering that Lorkhan was sustaining the power of the tribunal, dagoth Ur, Tiber Septim, Zurin, and the underking, and the mantella was filled with only the soul of Zurin ( I believe), the numidium was at best a fraction of its true potential.

Back on topoc of what the post is about....
What if Numidium (and later Akulakhan) were attempts by Shor's heart to get itself a new body? Both ideas were thought up by elves who had been 'driven mad by the Heart's influence', so I'm starting to get the impression that the Heart was usinh Kagnarec and Dagoth Ur as pawns to get itself a body and then exist uncontrollably.

But then why was wulfrath the underking so [&@%!] about it? He didnt show up to the war of
red mountain for no reason.Tiber septim controlling it kinda fits what your saying cause it would be like lorkhans controlling lorkhan. But the elves would have used it for their own purposes.

It appeared as though the dwarves would use it for themselves, but once it got activated it would be totally unconttollable and the heart was just using dumac as a means to an end

Was Numidium, and by extension Akulakhan, purely autonomous, or did it have a cockpit?

You want a giant brass 'Mech, right? That would be cool, but I don't believe any source refers to it being piloted. The thing that made me wonder the same was the appearance of Akulakhan, with the large cavity in its midsection for the heart and lots of space left for a standing humanoid. No sign of controls, though, really.

Mage Knight had brass golems aplenty, but nothing really piloted. I think I've seen the like in Golem Arcana, perhaps.

MidbossVyers wrote:Was Numidium, and by extension Akulakhan, purely autonomous, or did it have a cockpit?

It's controlled like an RC chopper. The Totem of Tiber Septim allows it to be directed.

Although, in lieu of the release of Pacific Rim, the idea of a three-person Jaegar wherein Hjalti, Zurin and Ysmir did a Neural Handshake is an awesome metaphor. Not canon, but really interesting.