Dark Brotherhood (Club/Faction)

[bepeasej22]

For all they know, it could be used by worshippers for a daedric lord.

I think the decline for the DB is mostly due to lack of strong leadership. I knowp, the Night Mother is the real "Governing" figure, but the leaders under her aren't too strong. They allowed an "enemy" to infiltrate their ranks and cause The Purification of their main sanctuary in Cyrodiil. Under Astrid's leadership, the remainder of the DB was almost destroyed. The main cause, in my opiion, for the dark brotherhood's "fall" is due to its leadership. Yeah the war destroyed most of the DB, but the DB was really destroyed by itself.

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

For all they know, it could be used by worshippers for a daedric lord.

I think the decline for the DB is mostly due to lack of strong leadership. I knowp, the Night Mother is the real "Governing" figure, but the leaders under her aren't too strong. They allowed an "enemy" to infiltrate their ranks and cause The Purification of their main sanctuary in Cyrodiil. Under Astrid's leadership, the remainder of the DB was almost destroyed. The main cause, in my opiion, for the dark brotherhood's "fall" is due to its leadership. Yeah the war destroyed most of the DB, but the DB was really destroyed by itself.

The Black hand couldn't know that Bellmont was a traitor. He was one of the most trusted Dark brothers for a time.

And they did try to eliminate him. Sadly they were too late. He had moved on.

[Knows-Many-Secrets]

For all they know, it could be used by worshippers for a daedric lord.

I think the decline for the DB is mostly due to lack of strong leadership. I knowp, the Night Mother is the real "Governing" figure, but the leaders under her aren't too strong. They allowed an "enemy" to infiltrate their ranks and cause The Purification of their main sanctuary in Cyrodiil. Under Astrid's leadership, the remainder of the DB was almost destroyed. The main cause, in my opiion, for the dark brotherhood's "fall" is due to its leadership. Yeah the war destroyed most of the DB, but the DB was really destroyed by itself.

The Black hand couldn't know that Bellmont was a traitor. He was one of the most trusted Dark brothers for a time.

And they did try to eliminate him. Sadly they were too late. He had moved on.

It's also worth noting that the Night Mother WANTED the Black Hand to be systematically murdered by the traitor. She knew the entire time who he was and what his motives were. She elected not to warn anyone to kill off her weak Black Hand so she can get a new one. Kinda goes to show what happens when you put faith in a dark spirit.

Meanwhile in Skyrim it was entirely opposite. The Brotherhood was crippled without the Night Mother, and was nearly destroyed because Astrid refused to bend a knee to the ancient traditions.


The real question here is if the Night Mother is even a good thing to have around. Her omniscience and ability to hear the Black Sacrament is of course pivotal to the Dark Brotherhood's ability to function. But one must wonder how wise it is to put faith in a being so willing to butcher her closest followers and leaders on a whim. Even killing her most loyal champion, Lucien Lachance, in the process.

[ZackyZombify]

I wouldn't say she wanted Lucien to die. She let the other members die because they had gotten soft/weak and didn't use their wits. I'd say Lucien life was lost for the greater good. And since the dragonborn has been named listener, I'm sure they'll grow nice and strong again.

[Knows-Many-Secrets]

I wouldn't say she wanted Lucien to die. She let the other members die because they had gotten soft/weak and didn't use their wits. I'd say Lucien life was lost for the greater good. And since the dragonborn has been named listener, I'm sure they'll grow nice and strong again.

True. She considered his death a tragedy. But if she REALLY wanted to stop it, it was entirely within her power to do so.

Unless she is physically unable to speak to anyone but the Listener. Which I doubt considering she's the one that picks the Listener. Often to the extreme as to cause the Brotherhood severe damage. She went decades without a Listener during the Great War. And really, that was the cause of the Brotherhood's collapse. It simply cannot function without her. And despite being surrounded by loyal followers and skilled assassins she remained silent, even if it meant the utter ruin of the Brotherhood, until she met someone she liked enough to speak to.

Sometimes it seems the Night Mother just doesn't have the Brotherhood's best interests in mind. It was her silence that caused an entire santuary to get wiped out, as well as the mass slaughter of the Black Hand and Lucien along with it. And her silence that weakened the Brotherhood during the Great War, effectively making it an organization without a true leader. Her silence on the matter of Astrid's intentions ended in the slaughter of yet another sanctuary, this one the last remaining sanctuary in the world! And yes, the Night Mother knew what Astrid was planning. The Night Mother has displayed the ability to know pretty much anything she needs to.


We'll see in the next game how it all turns out. If we're in the same boat as we are now or, somehow, worse then I think we need to rethink the whole worshiping an amoral corpse thing. However if we're booming and doing better than ever before, then perhaps that was her plan all along? Another purging of the Brotherhood's weakest links through manipulating events outside the Brotherhood's control so it can grow again more powerful than ever!

I just hope we don't need to murder our own sanctuary again next game. Or watch them all die... I get the whole guild revolves around death and rebirth. But can't we go one game without losing some of the most interesting characters in the game!?

Or at least replace then with non-generic NPCs without a name or face...

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

I think its worth mentioning that, from her comments in Oblivion, abandoning the Night Mother is the very reason she ever punished the Brotherhood:

"You remain silent even when faced with my terrible countenance? Your silent obedience is to be commended. If only my other children had offered such reverence."

Similarly, it was not her place to stop bellmont:

"The Dread Father foresaw it all! You were meant to kill the traitor! You were meant to be named Listener of the Black Hand!"

And Furthermore, she is keenly interested with maintaining a strong organisation:

"You possess strength, and cunning, and a heart as black as midnight."

But why then, did she let the brotherhood fall? In the case of Astrid, I'd be willing to suggest that the chaos unleashed there was the wrath of Sithis (no, I don't believe that ghost thing is the only manifestation of Sithis' wrath, if anything its only gameplay mechanics). Hell, they had even been given a chance to come around (Cicero), yet Astrid still remained blasphemous.

As for the rest of its fall, we only know so much. We know nothing about the fall of Bruma, and Cicero only comes in mid way through the crisis. We do know that the Black Hand was lacking any decisive leadership, as somehow the Hand had split on its course of action (5 is an odd number, meaning at least one person is incompetent). It may be that such weakness required purging, again. beside, I'm not sure how the Night Mother would stop Wayrest being sacked.

Also, remember that if the night mother didn't intervene, it proves that mundane leadership can be just as ruining to the Brotherhood.

[bepeasej22]

I think the night mother is just a physical manifestation of sithis or just a messenger to pass on sithis' s will. When sithis wants something done, the night mother relays the message. The success or failure depends on sithis. It is just like the thieves guild. Their bad luck was due to nocturnal. The "God" they worship controls their fate. The dark brotherhood has fallen every time because sithis lost faith in the direction they were heading. The purification was necessary. If the cheydinhal purge had never occurred, we would not have been able to find an stop bellamont until it was too late. The skyrim chapter was purged because they had strayed too far from the path sithis wanted them to follow. Each time there was a purge, it was necessary so that the dark brotherhood could survive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Iex1E0tjqo

[bepeasej22]

Whatever happened to the guy who gave out ranks for this forum?

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

Whatever happened to the guy who gave out ranks for this forum?

This thread has been very inactive for a while. Try PMing the guy who posted this originally.

[bepeasej22]

It doesn't seem too inactive. People have been coming to this thread.

I have a new question. Is the Void just another plane of oblivion or is it something different entirely?

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

It doesn't seem too inactive. People have been coming to this thread.

I have a new question. Is the Void just another plane of oblivion or is it something different entirely?

Only recent has this topic started up again. I'd imagine the original guy has forgotten about this.

The void is not a plane of Oblivion. From My understanding, it surrounds Oblivion, just as oblivion surrounds Mundus (Nirn mostly, the planet).

Similarly, Sithis is certainly not a Daedra, and is often called the void. He is also known as Padomay, and is the driving force of change, and was the driving force for creation.

[BetaB17]

The void layes beyond the borders of Oblivion and Aetherius.. With Mundas being the yummy center^_^
To my understanding, it represents the unknown and is the source of origin. Here is where stasis and change took root, and it is rightly feared to return to nothingness.

Hidden:

But I am curious, if the blood of 2 forces created the deadra and Aedra. Yet this confuses me? Seeing as Anu's blood alone created the stars, but this is also credited to when magnus and the rest fled mundas, ripping holes into Aetherius

One thing to note, we literately know nothing of the void(speaking from in-game perspective), yet there exists the outer realms? Maybe the idea of absolute wasn't that fond, so the possibility is more favored. If unique outer realms exist, Anu and Sithis can have their own realms.. and to a greater extent create a new "mundas" . Then again they are said to never be allowed to return.. and I can see them not wanting to speak to each others
Sorry >_< I just could not resist. Sithis, forgive meh and my pet rock.. It was all his idea anyways..

[bepeasej22]

I would bet the void is filling up with all of the victims of the dark brotherhood. If only nazeem were a target. Can't stand that guy.

[Knows-Many-Secrets]

I actually question what Sithis needs with souls at all. He's one of the two most powerful entities in the universe and seems to have little interest in directly working with mortals outside the Brotherhood. But why the Brotherhood? And why murder specifically? He's not a god of death or murder like Mephala or Boethiah. He's the very essence of change. One would think if he did have any interest in Nirn it'd be in a broader stroke than simple killings.

[BetaB17]

Though I believe heavily on Sithis more than I would the Night Mother>_>
but Sithis may in fact despise the Aedra.. not to say killing his son is the only cause
But think, the void is emptiness, outside of that rests the outer realms where sithis has made a home for himself. By slowly casting souls into the void, slowly creation will revert due to the lose of mortals. The Aedra treasure them most, deadra covet them.. and doing so through ritual murder is a perfect sign of chaos, because humanity is doomed to fight itself. But even explaining this, I can barely understand this possibility>_<

[bepeasej22]

I don't think you can have one without the other. Without sithis, the night mother would be a useless "leader". She wouldn't have any guidance. But at the same time, you can't have sithis without the night mother. Yeah sithis would still exist but their would be anyone to state sithis' will to the DB. So yeah you can only worship sithis, but you still have to acknowledge the night mother as well.

[BetaB17]

Unless the Dread Father creates a more direct means to guide his children. I'll rather hear it from the source>_> not the median. If the dread father becomes more active, it is true the db would reach an all knew status to be feared

[bepeasej22]

I don't necessarily think people would be more fearful of the dark brotherhood then they already are. Now if everyone found out that sithis was actually one of the daedric lords then they would be afraid. But just being afraid of sithis just because he is directly speaking to the dark brotherhood would just be the same fear they already have.

What does everyone think the best class to play as in the dark brotherhood is? (Warrior, Mage, Archer, etc...)

[ZackyZombify]

I doubt that. People seem to fear the unknown. So if Sithis was a daedra I think people would be like "oh."

To each his own. There has been memorable NPCs of each class. But I always play a sneak dagger/bow character.

[Mefris Elmek]

[...]One would think if he did have any interest in Nirn it'd be in a broader stroke than simple killings.

By killing important figures throughout the world he has effectively shaped the current state of Nirn.The killing of Pelagius I is a great example of how one man being killed can have repercussions for centuries.

[bepeasej22]

So now how do you think Titus Mede II's death will effect things? Will it cause drastic change (ex. Another Great War) or will his death have little to no effect on the current state of things?

[BetaB17]

It may actually give rise to unity. If skyrim rises and even gains control of the throne, the Dominion no longer has their puppet. A war is unavoidable, but under what conditions are unpredictable

[Right-Hand-Of-Sithis]

So now how do you think Titus Mede II's death will effect things? Will it cause drastic change (ex. Another Great War) or will his death have little to no effect on the current state of things?

I feel it heralds further decay for the Empire, now that nobles are murdering the Emperor to advance their own position. Did not Rome teach us anything?

[DarkEastwood]

I remember when I posted on this other Skyrim forum before, they had clubs like this one, and there was a Dark Brotherhood. One activity that we did was the Listener and Speakers would give the other members assassination tasks, that were to be dealt with in-game (some in Oblivion, some in Skyrim). Like, a Speaker would post something saying:

Kill Dirge.

Bonus: - Kill him by making him Frenzy, or make him flee in Fear and kill him with any weapon.

The assassins can take a picture of their kill, or the midst of their kill. But that was usually optional.

[ZackyZombify]

That's against the rules here.