Why are you religious/non-religious?

[Mucro]

I, quite frankly, won't be able to tell the difference between Melton and hell anyway.

[Lindai]

it's like me holding a gun to a gay man's head and saying, sure you can have sex with that man, but I'll blow your brains out after!" God is effectively offering me two choices, obey him or face eternal wrath and i don't see how that's free at all.

Can I own a dog and a television without having a licence? Yes, I have the freedom to. But the pricks will haul me to court if I'm caught without them. So am I a free man? According to your logic, no,because I have to obey some rules.

[Wolfie]

The main problem here Wolfie seems to be that you genuinely believe everyone should be Christian.

Go back a few posts I even said I'm not saying "You have to be a Christian"

With all due respect, that's utter rubbish. I would never want everyone to be Buddhist, as I consider one's faith to something important and personal.

One problem with this
Faith is about believing something we believe that God IS real so in such if we are right then its not personal its a fact that evrey one will find out one day
in the same token any religion could be right

Single-faith societies are, in my eyes, a disgrace to humanity, and I would never condone or support one. So why would it be necessary for someone to follow the Bible and Ten Commandments if they aren't a Christian.

Cause if God is real then it is a sin (I'm not syaing you have to follow it, you can go and sleep with anyone you want I won''t stop you)

And if it is sin then Christ comes and you have rejected him you go to hell
Would it not be wrong for me not to try to exspalin us when you guys have the wrong thoughts of what Christians believe?

If Alicia Keyes approached me now and professed her love for me, I sure as hell (lolirony) wouldn't stop myself because the Bible says it's wrong.

Never said you had to
God gave you free will thats your choice
I won't stop you, i how ever believe that God is real and that anyone who wishes to be svaed should try to follow the bible

Now what makes your beliefs any more right then mine?

Well thats your choice God lets you make it
But think of this
IF God is real then would it be wrong for me to hold it form every one else?

Basicly I'm doing the samething you guys are
posting holes we see in others belifes
E.X me belife the bible is true
E.X you belife it is not

Of couse its all ophions

[Stendarr]

No it's not, first off when God first made Huamns they where perfect there was no desies or health problems
when we ate the apple it started

Don't be ridiculous, how that "gift of free will" can then make humanity's genetics fallible? Truth is, we wouldn't be as advanced if we were born perfect.

so its Adam and Eves fault

You do know that Adam and Eve fable is impossible? The gene pool would've been WAY too small to not give the inclusion of all sorts of consanguinity problems. You NEED a large gene pool to make healthy evolving beings. And we certainly evolved a great bunch from when we were Homo Sapiens. One of the biggest threat to animals who face extinction is exactly that, too few individual procreate together, and you have a bunch of problems arising.

He told all who will lsitting, you on the other hand do not want to
the holy bible is his world yet you turn it away
he wont force it on you
soooo whats your point?

I never heard anything. And I have no guarantee the Bible means something in regards to the existence of God. Seriously, I'm all ears.

Yes Genetic came over time, and environmental pressure which was added by our Race
so again
our choices made it

Care to explain how? Anyone can come up with a crazy ass story. Even more that what you just said is written nowhere in the bible (the science of genetics didn't even existed yet), so that's pulling something off your ass.

God dont want you to murder he lets it be possable why?
cause whats the point of free will if you are not free?

I always wondered how God decided what was a sin and not.

How not? and its not "some magic"
God made our brains the way they are
God made our brains in turn made free will

Yet you said it's Eve's fault. That humanity suddenly got free-will because of that, so God blew her head off, changed her brain and called it a day?

Plus, depending of the state of brain, we act differently. So why didn't he made our brain in such a fashion that sin is impossible? It would've been possible.

Thats not free will cause then you cant do stuff

how the heck is that free will?[/quote]
Well, I don't necessarily choose which girl I fall in love with, because my brain forces me to react in such a way. According to you we are not even free. I think you didn't even read the first part of my post. Our brain can react in ways that is beyond our control, and I said that if our brain affected a bit differently, it would still be free will, because we have free will despite what I said. I think you're just ignoring what I said.

Free will is just a concept made to explain certain things, but the definition isn't the same as before as we learned more about the brain. If our brain can be so easily affected by our environment or life events, making us change, how is it exactly true free will?

Becuse we control our brain, sure we can get mad but we can calm down to, sure we can have bad thoughts but we can stop our selfs
there is NO sin that we are forced to do

That's not true. I don't control when to get adrenaline or dopamine boosts, if I don't take drugs that is.

[Wolfie]

But isn't what your describing here as free will not really free at at. The simple fact that some actions incur the penalty of eternal damnation affects our choices. If a man has sex with another man then this is a sin and will earn you a one way ticket to the fiery depths. .

This is not true
God forgives ALL sins all you need to do is follow Christ

This means that God is saying "Yes, you can do whatever you like right now, but if you do this, that or the other then you'll spend eternity being tortured." it's like me holding a gun to a gay man's head and saying, sure you can have sex with that man, but I'll blow your brains out after!" God is effectively offering me two choices, obey him or face eternal wrath and i don't see how that's free at all

So Is the USA not free?
Free will means that you can choice your path, in no way dose that mean there will be no concussions

[Arch-Mage Matt]

A couple create a baby. The baby grows up to be Hitler. Is it the couple's fault?

Hm. Yes. If the couple raised the child better they wouldn't have created an evil person. Besides, the couple were creations of God. So was Hitler.

So the death of millions of Jews was also the couple's fault? That sort of mindset is comical to even consider..

I don't recall saying that, even though yes, if Hitler grew up in normal times with a normal family, he probably wouldn't have turned out to be so evil.

I never thought this thread would suck me in like this. I think it's time for me to stop debating. I'll just state my opinion that following God's whim is foolish and everyone should live their life without being concerned about eternal damnation. If something good happens, don't thank god. Thank yourselves and those around you. If something bad happens, don't blame man's sin.

[Veck]

The big issue with this "do the right thing or you'll go to hell" arhument is that it's a fear tactic. I personally believe that churches developed it to scare people into joining them, and I absolutely refuse to believe that in the absolutely miniscule chance that Christianity is spot-on right that we'll be sent to eternal damnation for things like homosexuality. Making a man gay and then threatening him with hell unless he resists it isn't testing his faith, it's torture, plain and simple.

[Roadcone]

Can I own a dog and a television without having a licence? Yes, I have the freedom to. But the pricks will haul me to court if I'm caught without them. So am I a free man? According to your logic, no,because I have to obey some rules.

#

And i would completely agree with you there, no you are not free in that respect. Laws are necessary for human society to function, some people may not agree with some of them but they are their for our protection really. laws limit our freedom for the safety and equality of others around us. This is true for many of God's Laws, (most of which are also secular laws) However my arguments lie with the laws that limit equality or safety and i believe that God's Law against gay sex is in itself unlawful it creates inequality in life which goes against the entire point of a law. Laws like this shouldn't be followed simply because the bible says so. The persecution of gay people has caused pain and suffering for thousands of people over thousands of years. As i said before If God had laid down a law in which he banned black people from having sex would you still agree with him? in may eyes, and the eyes of science, there is no Choice in whether you are born Black or white and there is no choice in whether you like men or women.

[Lindai]

So the death of millions of Jews was also the couple's fault? That sort of mindset is comical to even consider..

I don't recall saying that, even though yes, if Hitler grew up in normal times with a normal family, he probably wouldn't have turned out to be so evil.

You didn't say it,but your logic allowed for that statement to be true.

If something bad happens, don't blame man's sin.

Even when man's sin is the clear cause of the bad thing's occurence?

[Veck]

I could (if I wanted) say that Hitler's actions against the Jews was a way of removing bad karma that they had gained and wiping down good karma that he had achieved without the knowledge necessary to proceed, but I don't, because I think it's a horrible thought that shouldn' be actively suggested, even though by all accounts of my philosophy it's a possibility. Knowing how far to go with your beliefs and how much to actually believe in them is important. So what if the bible says that homosexuality is bad? You're an individual, you're free to think what you bloody well want to. If you think something in your religion is bull or goes too far, don't accept it.

[Wolfie]

Don't be ridiculous, how that "gift of free will" can then make humanity's genetics fallible? Truth is, we wouldn't be as advanced if we were born perfect.

I'm unsure what you mean

You do know that Adam and Eve fable is impossible? The gene pool would've been WAY too small to not give the inclusion of all sorts of consanguinity problems. You NEED a large gene pool to make healthy evolving beings. And we certainly evolved a great bunch from when we were Homo Sapiens. One of the biggest threat to animals who face extinction is exactly that, too few individual procreate together, and you have a bunch of problems arising.

#1 its not imposable, as it can also exspalin WHY there are so many "imperfections"
# 2 You do not need, it is possable to mate with family, many types of animals do that
yes there can be so "problems" but that dose not mean that its imposable
prehaps the apple kept them save form "desise" and once they eat it they got the problems
#3 Genes can mutate\God made it where it worked

Your problem here is you Don't belive in God so anything i say wont hold any weight for you



after all it never said how many kids they had in the garden of Eden, and you can mate with your cousin with out problems soemtimes after that it gets eazy and even then there was no desies before they ate the apple


I

never heard anything. And I have no guarantee the Bible means something in regards to the existence of God. Seriously, I'm all ears

Cause you refuse to hear
I have heard nothing to disprove god
and then you will come back with "thats unfair"
yet you ask me to prove him?
hmm

Care to explain how? Anyone can come up with a crazy [&@%!] story. Even more that what you just said is written nowhere in the bible (the science of genetics didn't even existed yet), so that's pulling something off your ass.

# 1 the bible dose not mention it but it existed god made it passable
# 2 it did as many pepole knew about "higher genes" (was not called that then but it was tthere)
#3 it is in the bible maybe if you read it you will find out, he cursed man and women to feel pain and sickness and detah
before that there was none

God dont want you to murder he lets it be possable why?
cause whats the point of free will if you are not free?

I always wondered how God decided what was a sin and not.
It's kind of like with a rular and all powerful being you know?
they kinda say what is wrong and what is not

Yet you said it's Eve's fault. That humanity suddenly got free-will because of that, so God blew her head off, changed her brain and called it a day?

No i did not
Humans had free will before that man where did i say she was "giving" free will right then?

Well, I don't necessarily choose which girl I fall in love with, because my brain forces me to react in such a way. According to you we are not even free

love dose not = lust
You choice who you fall in love with
Love is not wanting the person it is being there for that person evrey day
and that is a choice

I think you didn't even read the first part of my post. Our brain can react in ways that is beyond our control, and I said that if our brain affected a bit differently, it would still be free will, because we have free will despite what I said. I think you're just ignoring what I said

.
In the end Our brain is under our control, we tell it what to think and what to do
The brain tells us to breath, we can stop our selfs from doing it (yes it is hard to)
The brain tells us to mate, again we can stop
tells us to blink
we can stop
one of the few we cant stop is the heart and even then there are ways to control it slow it down and what nit
its also a muscle
god made it that way so we don't haver to think 50000 things at once always evrey day of evrey sec

That's not true. I don't control when to get adrenaline or dopamine boosts, if I don't take drugs that is.

Yes you can, sure tis not easy but pepole can "get their hear pumping" and the adrenal;ing pumping
its hardar but its possable

[Stendarr]

Don't be ridiculous, how that "gift of free will" can then make humanity's genetics fallible? Truth is, we wouldn't be as advanced if we were born perfect.

I'm unsure what you mean

What is hard to understand? You said free will gave us all our imperfections, that we were perfect before. Then I said that it's our imperfections that helped made us who we are. There is countless evidence to evolution.

You do know that Adam and Eve fable is impossible? The gene pool would've been WAY too small to not give the inclusion of all sorts of consanguinity problems. You NEED a large gene pool to make healthy evolving beings. And we certainly evolved a great bunch from when we were Homo Sapiens. One of the biggest threat to animals who face extinction is exactly that, too few individual procreate together, and you have a bunch of problems arising.

#1 its not imposable, as it can also exspalin WHY there are so many "imperfections"

No, a lot of imperfections come from mutations.

# 2 You do not need, it is possable to mate with family, many types of animals do that
yes there can be so "problems" but that dose not mean that its imposable
prehaps the apple kept them save form "desise" and once they eat it they got the problems

You missed my point. Of course it is possible to mate with family, but problems can arise in few generations, as proven in several places. There's more consanguinity problems in Quebec than a lot of places, because of the French who came here were not that numerous. There's also a specific region called Saguenay, a place which is a bit far from the big centers where consanguinity was more present. And what resulted? More problems. On a large scale, it IS impossible to have eliminated all those problems, as a small gene pool makes sure most genes are always preserved, hence the problems too. It can also make some genes that operates only with another work, because almost everyone else also as it. On the long run, consanguinity would have made it impossible for us to evolve from 2 - or even a dozen, hundreds - human beings into 7 billion people, thousands and thousands of year later. You know nothing about genetics dude, these human imperfections are not the same thing AT ALL as the problems that can arise through consanguinity. Ask any serious scientist, he will laugh at you. No offense, it's just true.

If you want to EVOLVE - which is something we obviously did - you NEED a large gene pool, you NEED variety so natural selection can operate. Small gene pool = nonexistent evolution = stagnation = more chances to disappear. That's how it works dude, even if the bible says otherwise.

after all it never said how many kids they had in the garden of Eden, and you can mate with your cousin with out problems soemtimes after that it gets eazy and even then there was no desies before they ate the apple

How does it changes anything? No matter how many children you have, there will be lots of recurring genes. And then if they mate again, the same genes the parents had will still be handled down. Obviously, there's far more human genes on Earth than a genome of two people put together. Hell! Why did I tried to make you understand the bit about evolution when it's flat out impossible to have such a wide variety of genes only through the mutation of those of two parents?

Cause you refuse to hear
I have heard nothing to disprove god
and then you will come back with "thats unfair"
yet you ask me to prove him?
hmm

I have to take your word then?

# 1 the bible dose not mention it but it existed god made it passable
# 2 it did as many pepole knew about "higher genes" (was not called that then but it was tthere)
#3 it is in the bible maybe if you read it you will find out, he cursed man and women to feel pain and sickness and detah
before that there was none

That doesn't make what you said more in the bible, more than something you invented.

No i did not
Humans had free will before that man where did i say she was "giving" free will right then?

And what's the thing with the apple then?

Well, I don't necessarily choose which girl I fall in love with, because my brain forces me to react in such a way. According to you we are not even free

love dose not = lust

I never said that.

You choice who you fall in love with

Not that much. You know about pheromones? Your body detects who can give you the strongest babies. How is that even a choice? Sure, you can choose whomever you want, but no matter if your conscious choice can be stronger than what your body tells you, your body still manages to rewire your brain and make you think things you didn't choose too. You know, when your eyes line-up with a those of a girl and that makes you feel very weird, it's not something you have control over. It's not lust, maybe not love yet, but it's a feeling you can't control. You can ignore it yes - although your brain will try to tell you not to - but your body still reacts in a way you have no control over. You'd have much more free will if those pheromones didn't affect you, yet you say God wiring your brain a certain way would make free will impossible? How is that any different? Don't be ridiculous, you're just ignoring the truth.

In the end Our brain is under our control, we tell it what to think and what to do
The brain tells us to breath, we can stop our selfs from doing it (yes it is hard to)
The brain tells us to mate, again we can stop
tells us to blink
we can stop
one of the few we cant stop is the heart and even then there are ways to control it slow it down and what nit
its also a muscle
god made it that way so we don't haver to think 50000 things at once always evrey day of evrey sec

You keep ignoring the countless of ways our brain can get affected, making us different in the process. Do you think the blind people see the world the same way as us? Do you think someone who killed someone else, or saw a friend die will feel the same way after? All those things change the brain wiring. Experience and the environment can change a LOT about us, which is something that makes total control impossible. Hell, just look at those suffering from depression. Their brains literally disables them from certain things, make them do things they wouldn't do otherwise, it can, no it DOES take a certain control out of them, this is not debatable.

That's not true. I don't control when to get adrenaline or dopamine boosts, if I don't take drugs that is.

Yes you can, sure tis not easy but pepole can "get their hear pumping" and the adrenal;ing pumping
its hardar but its possable

And you can control your testosterone income? You can control how much you sweat?

[born2beagator]

Okay, I will try to clarify the free will misunderstanding.

The human race was created from the beginning with free will. However, what was not present at this time was sickness, death, pain, etc. The very fact that Adam and Eve were able to sin is proof that free will was there from the beginning. Mankind CHOSE to disobey God, if there was no free will, they would not have been able to sin. Their choice of disobedience is what brought imperfection into the world. Mankind were perfect beings before this choice. They chose to ruin their perfection.

btw we really have to be careful when trying to interpret the Book of Genisis. It can be more complicated than Revelation.

[Stendarr]

Okay, I will try to clarify the free will misunderstanding.

The human race was created from the beginning with free will. However, what was not present at this time was sickness, death, pain, etc. The very fact that Adam and Eve were able to sin is proof that free will was there from the beginning. Mankind CHOSE to disobey God, if there was no free will, they would not have been able to sin. Their choice of disobedience is what brought imperfection into the world. Mankind were perfect beings before this choice. They chose to ruin their perfection.

btw we really have to be careful when trying to interpret the Book of Genisis. It can be more complicated than Revelation.

Ah, I got lost a bit. But I still can't believe any of it considering all the evidence towards evolution (well, I mean that we didn't firstly appear on Earth as humans), which includes a bit of talk I had here.

[born2beagator]

Okay, I will try to clarify the free will misunderstanding.

The human race was created from the beginning with free will. However, what was not present at this time was sickness, death, pain, etc. The very fact that Adam and Eve were able to sin is proof that free will was there from the beginning. Mankind CHOSE to disobey God, if there was no free will, they would not have been able to sin. Their choice of disobedience is what brought imperfection into the world. Mankind were perfect beings before this choice. They chose to ruin their perfection.

btw we really have to be careful when trying to interpret the Book of Genisis. It can be more complicated than Revelation.

Ah, I got lost a bit. But I still can't believe any of it considering all the evidence towards evolution (well, I mean that we didn't firstly appear on Earth as humans), which includes a bit of talk I had here.

I will give you that. There is plenty of evidence towards evolution. But what about Simians? Did they get left behind when mankind "evolved?"

[Stendarr]

I will give you that. There is plenty of evidence towards evolution. But what about Simians? Did they get left behind when mankind "evolved?"

Well, being left behind is not a word I would use. It's just that evolution works on a lot of variables, not only through time, but through space (ie. geography and such) which changes over time. So it's all pretty complex, probably where there is so much complexity in life, so many species. But maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but you know Simians (like all other monkeys) are just cousins? We probably have a common ancestor like most beings (as evidenced by analogous or unused/almost unused body parts for the most common example), but saying they "got left behind" kind of implies we are closer to them than we actually are.

EDIT: Wait, I think I misread about the Simians... So they are kind of a taxonomic group including humans? Not sure what you mean, since they are not a species from what I gather.

[born2beagator]

I will give you that. There is plenty of evidence towards evolution. But what about Simians? Did they get left behind when mankind "evolved?"

Well, being left behind is not a word I would use. It's just that evolution works on a lot of variables, not only through time, but through space (ie. geography and such) which changes over time. So it's all pretty complex, probably where there is so much complexity in life, so many species. But maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but you know Simians (like all other monkeys) are just cousins? We probably have a common ancestor like most beings (as evidenced by analogous or unused/almost unused body parts for the most common example), but saying they "got left behind" kind of implies we are closer to them than we actually are.

EDIT: Wait, I think I misread about the Simians... So they are kind of a taxonomic group including humans? Not sure what you mean, since they are not a species from what I gather.

Monkeys, gorillas etc. I think there are many arguments for both sides, we will just stick to me believeing in creationism, and you evolution I don't think anyone is going to win this argument.

[Wolfie]

What is hard to understand? You said free will gave us all our imperfections, that we were perfect before. Then I said that it's our imperfections that helped made us who we are. There is countless evidence to evolution.

No no no thats not what i meant
Free will did not
Free will let us eat the apple which then Got rid of the "perfect life"

No, a lot of imperfections come from mutations.

Never said they did not
and by that token could not Adam and Eve have a all the genes we have?
I mean we have never seen them so they could have way more genes
your going to say "thats imposable"
but remember in Christian eyes God can do anything he wants

[

You missed my point. Of course it is possible to mate with family, but problems can arise in few generations, as proven in several places

.
which exspalins why we have homesxual and what not then (if homosexual is a gene thing)

There's more consanguinity problems in Quebec than a lot of places, because of the French who came here were not that numerous. There's also a specific region called Saguenay, a place which is a bit far from the big centers where consanguinity was more present. And what resulted? More problems. On a large scale, it IS impossible to have eliminated all those problems, as a small gene pool makes sure most genes are always preserved, hence the problems too. It can also make some genes that operates only with another work, because almost everyone else also as it. On the long run, consanguinity would have made it impossible for us to evolve from 2 - or even a dozen, hundreds - human beings into 7 billion people, thousands and thousands of year later.

#1 its not thosuands of years the bible never says how old the earth is thats man trying to find "codes"
#2 it was more liekly some where in the billions (judging by science)

You know nothing about genetics dude, these human imperfections are not the same thing AT ALL as the problems that can arise through consanguinity. Ask any serious scientist, he will laugh at you. No offense, it's just true.

If you want to EVOLVE - which is something we obviously did - you NEED a large gene pool, you NEED variety so natural selection can operate. Small gene pool = nonexistent evolution = stagnation = more chances to disappear. That's how it works dude, even if the bible says otherwise.

The bidle dose not say other wise
another thing worth noting I'm not a scinceintist I'm a 16 year old so I'm going to let someone who knows about it

http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics
I'd bet good $$ he knows more then you and that he would laugh at you for thinking this no offense It's just true

How does it changes anything? No matter how many children you have, there will be lots of recurring genes. And then if they mate again, the same genes the parents had will still be handled down. Obviously, there's far more human genes on Earth than a genome of two people put together. Hell! Why did I tried to make you understand the bit about evolution when it's flat out impossible to have such a wide variety of genes only through the mutation of those of two parents?

See link and learn some things

I have to take your word then?

Nope you dont
you dont have to do anything
you can do what ever you want

That doesn't make what you said more in the bible, more than something you invented.

did you read #3?!
it is in the bible ask any one who studys the bible or look it up your self

And what's the thing with the apple then?

to be "fair" its a fruit not an apple

But it was the Tree of knowledge of good and evil
When they ate that they became unperfect
after all the bible dose say ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Not that much. You know about pheromones? Your body detects who can give you the strongest babies. How is that even a choice?

simple dont sleep with them
if this is "true" then why do so many pepole fall in love with the "no impraont persons?"
simply cause the pheromones do not force you to

Sure, you can choose whomever you want, but no matter if your conscious choice can be stronger than what your body tells you, your body still manages to rewire your brain and make you think things you didn't choose too. You know, when your eyes line-up with a those of a girl and that makes you feel very weird, it's not something you have control over. It's not lust, maybe not love yet, but it's a feeling you can't control. You can ignore it yes - although your brain will try to tell you not to - but your body still reacts in a way you have no control over. You'd have much more free will if those pheromones didn't affect you, yet you say God wiring your brain a certain way would make free will impossible? How is that any different? Don't be ridiculous, you're just ignoring the truth.

Uh huh
Your annoying the truth "Sure, you can choose whomever you want"
your own words you can choice who you want
can you stop your self form feeling something for someone?
yes you can.

You keep ignoring the countless of ways our brain can get affected, making us different in the process. Do you think the blind people see the world the same way as us? Do you think someone who killed someone else, or saw a friend die will feel the same way after? All those things change the brain wiring. Experience and the environment can change a LOT about us, which is something that makes total control impossible. Hell, just look at those suffering from depression. Their brains literally disables them from certain things, make them do things they wouldn't do otherwise, it can, no it DOES take a certain control out of them, this is not debatable

.
Free will dose not meazn total control it means we can choice what to do

Free will dose not mean we can fly around with our farts
nor dose it mean we can not feel anything

We can stop our selfs form being deppresed (how many pepole moran and then say "enough" and then go on with life)

And you can control your testosterone income? You can control how much you sweat?

[/quote]
Again free will dose not mean no problems for said choice
your just grasping at straw man,
We need to sweat to live, and yes we can control it (by having lustful thoughts and what not)

Look man Its obviously you don't believe in God, before you say it I am not back down form anything (nor is this a fight)
But tell me this how many "contradictions" have pepole posted on here?
how many have i proven not true?
I'm not perfect I can't answer everything and its really unfair to expect me to
I'm one person so I'm not 100% right on everything no one can

All I can say this
Free will does not mean 100% free anything you think of
it means you choice what you want to do
you can kickdown that door
you can jump
God dose not force you he
likde dose that mean he forces it to rain evrey time?
no he set it where it would but he dose not force it

[born2beagator]

Wolfie, I think I already explained the free will misunderstanding adequeatly.

[Wolfie]

Wolfie, I think I already explained the free will misunderstanding adequeatly.

Yes i saw that thanks
I'm not the best to decribe thins as i have to work twice as hard to make someone understand what I'm saying


I believe in evolution
There is no where in the bible that disproves it
After all if god gave us free will evolution can be a part of it
(granted it would take billions of years) but what a race decides to do affects it

[born2beagator]

Wolfie, I think I already explained the free will misunderstanding adequeatly.

Yes i saw that thanks
I'm not the best to decribe thins as i have to work twice as hard to make someone understand what I'm saying


I believe in evolution
There is no where in the bible that disproves it
After all if god gave us free will evolution can be a part of it
(granted it would take billions of years) but what a race decides to do affects it

I believe in the evolution of life, adaptation is more what I would call it. But I also believe that God created Man from the dust of the earth and Woman from a rib taken from Adam.

[Wolfie]

I believe in the evolution of life, adaptation is more what I would call it. But I also believe that God created Man from the dust of the earth and Woman from a rib taken from Adam.

Should point out it never said what Adam and Eve looked like
maybe they where more monkey then human as we know it?

I'm not saying thats it, but the bible dose not disprove or prove it
It's possible

[born2beagator]

I believe in the evolution of life, adaptation is more what I would call it. But I also believe that God created Man from the dust of the earth and Woman from a rib taken from Adam.

Should point out it never said what Adam and Eve looked like
maybe they where more monkey then human as we know it?

I'm not saying thats it, but the bible dose not disprove or prove it
It's possible

Could be, we weren't there. But the bible does state that God created mankind in the way described in the post above.

[Stendarr]

Never said they did not
and by that token could not Adam and Eve have a all the genes we have?
I mean we have never seen them so they could have way more genes

You do know every normal - ie. someone who did not suffer an important mutation like trisomy - human being have a certain fixed number of genes? Otherwise you need more chromosomes and that doesn't make you a human being anymore. If God managed to give more genes to Adam and Eve for some reason, EVERY one of their kids (and their kids) will have the same number of genes.

You missed my point. Of course it is possible to mate with family, but problems can arise in few generations, as proven in several places

.
which exspalins why we have homesxual and what not then (if homosexual is a gene thing)

Yes, because obviously that's the only explanation possible if homosexuality is a gene thing. The problem is, you know nothing about genetics. If homosexuality was due to consanguinity, after all these years, homosexuals wouldn't be such a minority. You have to know, consanguinity means the very same genes are always reused, there IS variation because we give only half of our genes, but it hardly is enough variation, there's not even new genes. Since homosexual exists, if it was due to a consanguinity thing - and we talk about it coming from TWO parents, and not hundreds, making things tenfold worse - it would be much, much, much more present.

There's more consanguinity problems in Quebec than a lot of places, because of the French who came here were not that numerous. There's also a specific region called Saguenay, a place which is a bit far from the big centers where consanguinity was more present. And what resulted? More problems. On a large scale, it IS impossible to have eliminated all those problems, as a small gene pool makes sure most genes are always preserved, hence the problems too. It can also make some genes that operates only with another work, because almost everyone else also as it. On the long run, consanguinity would have made it impossible for us to evolve from 2 - or even a dozen, hundreds - human beings into 7 billion people, thousands and thousands of year later.

#1 its not thosuands of years the bible never says how old the earth is thats man trying to find "codes"
#2 it was more liekly some where in the billions (judging by science)

I'm not talking about how old is the Earth.

another thing worth noting I'm not a scinceintist I'm a 16 year old so I'm going to let someone who knows about it

http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics
I'd bet good $$ he knows more then you and that he would laugh at you for thinking this no offense It's just true

And you should be less naĩve. That's pseudo-scientific [&@%!]. A real scientist doesn't try to "discover" things to fit his religious (or any at all) agenda, a real scientist gather clues, evidence and such from observations and calculations, then analyzing the information and interpreting it, makes theories.

Take a look at this website and browse through the "scientific" publications. We've been wrong all along. Scientists explain things that is OBSERVABLE, trying to use their theories for predictions, and the more predictions, the more validity they get. It's easy to come up with [&@%!] that explains something you want to be true if you can't flat-out disprove it, but that doesn't mean it's more valid. Those crazy dudes came up with tons of reasons for everything, and it's actually kinda hard to argue with them. But you know it's all [&@%!] when all their theories are disconnected, don't work together and only explain specific things when everything else the real scientists came up with fit marvelously together, AND manages to make predictions. Same things with that creationist dude who ignores the countless evidence towards evolution. Did you know whales have pelvises? Did you know we have a bone that is usually used for tails? Did you know we have a part in our intestines that are used by herbivores to digest things we can't? It's because we have common ancestors.

See link and learn some things

DUDE, please, tell me what is scientific in taking unproven things as true, and using them into researches? Or at least using them in a scientific text? That's utter travesty.

That doesn't make what you said more in the bible, more than something you invented.

did you read #3?!
it is in the bible ask any one who studys the bible or look it up your self

"Yes Genetic came over time, and environmental pressure which was added by our Race
so again
our choices made it"
That's not in the bible dude. Genetics and environment pressure are recent concepts compared to the bible's existence.

Not that much. You know about pheromones? Your body detects who can give you the strongest babies. How is that even a choice?

simple dont sleep with them

That's not even what I'm talking about.

if this is "true" then why do so many pepole fall in love with the "no impraont persons?"
simply cause the pheromones do not force you to

1. What does impraont means?
2. It IS true. It's been proven, ie. it's not an opinion.

Sure, you can choose whomever you want, but no matter if your conscious choice can be stronger than what your body tells you, your body still manages to rewire your brain and make you think things you didn't choose too. You know, when your eyes line-up with a those of a girl and that makes you feel very weird, it's not something you have control over. It's not lust, maybe not love yet, but it's a feeling you can't control. You can ignore it yes - although your brain will try to tell you not to - but your body still reacts in a way you have no control over. You'd have much more free will if those pheromones didn't affect you, yet you say God wiring your brain a certain way would make free will impossible? How is that any different? Don't be ridiculous, you're just ignoring the truth.

Uh huh
Your annoying the truth "Sure, you can choose whomever you want"
your own words you can choice who you want
can you stop your self form feeling something for someone?
yes you can.

Read again. I feel like having a one-way discussion, you ignore what annoys you and answers to the rest. Yes you can choose CERTAIN things, but like I said, you CAN'T have control over certain feelings. That is NOT a choice. I'm not saying we have no choice over anything, but we don't have TOTAL control, which is 100% true, but you fail to see this. It's not an opinion thing, it's a fact.

Free will dose not meazn total control it means we can choice what to do

Total control means we can do more choices... Plus, why did you argue about adrenalin and heartbeats if that doesn't matter in the first place...

We can stop our selfs form being deppresed (how many pepole moran and then say "enough" and then go on with life)

Yeah, yeah, anyone can say "screw depression I'm tired of it". More ignorant [&@%!]... Sure you don't need medication to stop being depressed, but it's not a single choice like that. It's quite complex. As far as I know, the only things that can really make you stop being depressed is if your life gets better, maybe through choices you made, but you just can't choose to stop being depressed.

Look man Its obviously you don't believe in God, before you say it I am not back down form anything (nor is this a fight)
But tell me this how many "contradictions" have pepole posted on here?
how many have i proven not true?
I'm not perfect I can't answer everything and its really unfair to expect me to
I'm one person so I'm not 100% right on everything no one can

If your one person who is not 100% right on everything, how come did you have proven so many contradictions not true? A lot of what you said is YOUR interpretation, things which were never said in the bible.

[born2beagator]

God didn't wire out brain not to sin. He gave us the choice between him and sin. Mankind chose sin.

btw, these responses are really long