Oblivion underrated within the TES community?

[bewing]

In some sense it's not reasonable for me to post on this topic -- I've only played Oblivion so far. (Skyrim soon, maybe never on Morrowind.) But after watching the video posted above, it seemed pretty clear to me what one of the issues was.

The video emphasizes the point that Morrowind is visually stimulating, and Oblivion is "normal"-looking with the implication that it's visually boring. Humans are genetically programmed to find beauty in "normal" things. When you step out of the sewers after the tutorial and see the lake and mountains in a glowing sunset, I think many players are simply amazed that such beauty can be generated automatically in a game. The pattern of cobbles in the streets of the Imperial City is lovely. The giant redwoods and maples and rhododendrons and pachysandra and ferns and produce and flowers you harvest are adorable. Oblivion is designed to be beautiful. All the creatures are cuter than hell. The one exception being the horrible faces on all the people, which is why Oblivion fans get all upset about that -- it goes directly against the nature of this episode of the game.

Now, I admit that having some dragons circling in the sky would add to things. I wish the weather was nice more of the time, because the scenery is dreary in a thunderstorm. Yes, it would be cool if there were moth-priests with souls hovering around them, walking the streets.

But it seems to me that it's the overstimulated players who desire a more jarring visual experience from something like Morrowind, and are unable to fully appreciate the simple subtle natural beauty of Oblviion.

[Kerr]

Watch the video again. It isn't the visuals that made Morrowind good. At no point does it say it was. It was the world. Oblivion has little going on in its world outside of the Oblivion Crisis itself. Morrowind and Skyrim have far more interesting worlds because things are happening independent of the player character.

[xDante]

This is a good video that explains why people feel this way, and basically shows my opinion of the subject, I think you should all check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEI4yS7sFEw

[BetaB17]

Personally I loved Morrowind, but oblivion has earned my love. I did feel less overwhelmed by the possible factions, but alot of gameplay improvements did make things smoother(as one would expect in the future). I would however find myself replay morrowind if everything was remastered and the bugs and possible issues where fixed. Going through oblivion converted me into being a good guy who valued unique npc's, instead of a goal of killing everything and everybody in morrowind>_> still when Im bored a good ole massacre in bruma is well enough.However, now that I can actually compare the 2 with the latest,skyrim, I really do miss the feeling of Aylied ruins and headless zombies. I will say this, they got their guild stories in a wondrous form, and that is what I love most. Not too short, not so simple, yet not so expansive. I still remember the hours I would spend piling tons of loot outside of a dungeon seeing as bandits always wore the good stuff>_> plus being forever invisible is a cheat

[Daring Fieldmajor]

I adore Oblivion, almost more than Morrowind, and even more than Skyrim, even though Skyrim was my first. But, don't get me wrong. I played the hell out of Skyrim, but, trying to go back to it now is almost, dare I say it, excruciatingly boring.

I feel like I have to hunker down and really get involved into the game and the story, which is hard for me to do after doing the same quests over and over. But, with Oblivion, this come very easily, and I have adventured without a hitch for hours on end. One thing that may be it is the quest lines. Excluding the main quest line, Oblivion's guild stories blew Skyrim's out of the water. At the end of the Dark Brotherhood quest line, I felt accomplished, having gotten every bonus and truly feeling in power.

Also, even though this may seem ridiculous, I feel that Oblivion did the whole "living, breathing world" thing better than Skyrim. Taking a leisurely nap on a hotel boat and being woken up by pirates to find the ship in the middle of the ocean blew my mind. And, keep in mind this was after playing Skyrim.
Anyway, I don't want to ramble on, so..there's just some quality about Oblivion that always draws me back, allowing unequaled entertainment for hours on end..I just haven't discovered what it is yet.

[Derp53]

Personally I loved Morrowind, but oblivion has earned my love. I did feel less overwhelmed by the possible factions, but alot of gameplay improvements did make things smoother(as one would expect in the future). I would however find myself replay morrowind if everything was remastered and the bugs and possible issues where fixed. Going through oblivion converted me into being a good guy who valued unique npc's, instead of a goal of killing everything and everybody in morrowind>_> still when Im bored a good ole massacre in bruma is well enough.However, now that I can actually compare the 2 with the latest,skyrim, I really do miss the feeling of Aylied ruins and headless zombies. I will say this, they got their guild stories in a wondrous form, and that is what I love most. Not too short, not so simple, yet not so expansive. I still remember the hours I would spend piling tons of loot outside of a dungeon seeing as bandits always wore the good stuff>_> plus being forever invisible is a cheat

I know this comes off as shallow, but I loved Oblivion and how expansive cities and towns. Magic was fun, but then I found out of combat and I hated it, blocking movements seem like blocking anything would break your arm, movements are clunky, and blocking with a shield is a pain. But, magic, that was fun, with my dunmer battlemage I had a blast just throwing fireballs everywhere. I just hated how clunky and stupid combat moves where, otherwise, I didn't have a problem with Oblivion outside the leveling problems.

[Demiverse]

Oblivion is underrated because:

1. The level scaling is seriously flawed.
2. NPC faces are disturbing and reek of the uncanny valley.
3. The setting and main quest are both very generic.

These issues are so apparent that many of the game's triumphs are easily overlooked. The guild questlines, for instance, were some of the best in the series. However, there are certain requirements for a game to be really "solid" and enjoyable, in my book. Either,

1. All or most aspects of the game are executed fairly well; or
2. Certain aspects of the game are executed extremely well - enough so to trump or excuse more lacking areas.

Though I suppose I agree that Oblivion is underrated, I think it's deserving of much of the criticism it endures.

[all_freed]

Wish I could love melee combat more but on highest diff the dmg output is miniscule! Not counting op poison.

[Minor Edits]

Let's clear up one thing: I'm talking about the regular Oblivion with the official add-ons and patches only. I'm not talking about the hundred or so mods PC players install to make the game enjoyable. So if you're a PC player that thinks Oblivion is underrated, take out all those game-saving mods and walk a mile in a console player's shoes.

Anyways, here's my list of reasons that OB is not underrated, but simply rated:

Horse Armor
Took a crap on the lore
Much of the story and lore doesn't make sense without OOG support (the game can't stand on its own)
Designs can't hold a candle to Morrowind. Or Skyrim, for that matter.
No levitation
Celled cities
Levelling system took all the danger out of the game
Dumb AI
Graphics were a big draw for the game when it was released - now, obviously, they are sub-par.
Boring dungeons
Bad animations (shove in all the pixels you want, it doesn't matter if the animation is goofy).
Horrible back-end problems (Play on a console long enough, and eventually you won't be able to even open your inventory screens).
Mounts sucked

Maybe more later.

[AngryNord]

Took a crap on the lore

In what way?

[ZackyZombify]

I have console oblivion and it blows skyrim out of the water. Idk about all the problems you listed as I don't have/see any of them. Even after thousands of hours. I couldn't even play skyrim through twice cause the story is horrible.

[Minor Edits]

Took a crap on the lore

In what way?

The Pale Pass quest.

Towns left completely unaccounted for.

A lot of the problem is simple neglect. Oblivion added relatively few lore-heavy books that hadn't already appeared in a TES game. It added some guides, some mildly interesting fictional short stories, and a lot of fragmented snippets, but few substantive works on the legends and history of TES beyond The Song of Pelinal, Before the Ages of Man, and the Mythic Dawn Commentaries. And a lot of the lore they did include did not make much sense because they're explained by other works which were not included. Much of the best TES lore that came out during this era wasn't even included in the game, which has caused us more than a few headaches on the wiki.

Keep in mind: it's Cyrodiil. The largest province. The heart of the Empire. Home of the Elder Scrolls and the White-Gold Tower. And yet, the Cyrodiil we saw in Oblivion was more like High Rock than anything else, and it was a fraction of the size of, say, Daggerfall. The seat of government at the White-Gold Tower turned out to be little more than that: a few seats, some corridors, a small library, and that's about it. Everything about Cyrodiil should have been far more impressive.

And the cities: surely, once they decided to compromise the sandbox and put cities in different cells, you would think Bethesda would then be free to make cities like Anvil, Skingrad, or the Imperial City into the cosmopolitan hubs they're supposed to be. But, no, the cities are hardly any bigger than they were in Morrowind. I think the Imperial City might actually be a little smaller than Vivec City. So they compromised the game to add a few more pixels, and frankly, I don't care about graphics. Oblivion is a great example of why: they do not endure. A big selling point of Oblivion was its graphics, and that value has depreciated significantly over time. I would have been fine with marginal improvements upon Morrowind's graphics, but they decided to invest more time and effort into adding pixels than adding substance. That may not seem facially related to Oblivion taking a crap on the lore, but it's very much connected to why they did not (could not) do justice to a portrayal of Cyrodiil. And since they couldn't, they shouldn't have tried. They should've taken us to a different province, one they could've pulled off better.

And there's probably more to gripe about, but this is long enough already. Edits to fix typos.

[Demiverse]

The Pale Pass quest.

Towns left completely unaccounted for.

A lot of the problem is simple neglect. Oblivion added relatively few lore-heavy books that hadn't already appeared in a TES game. It added some guides, some mildly interesting fictional short stories, and a lot of fragmented snippets, but few substantive works on the legends and history of TES beyond The Song of Pelinal, Before the Ages of Man, and the Mythic Dawn Commentaries. And a lot of the lore they did include did not make much sense because they're explained by other works with were not included. Much of the best TES lore that came out during this era wasn't even included in the game, which has caused us more than a few headaches on the wiki.

Keep in mind: it's Cyrodiil. The largest province. The heart of the Empire. Home of the Elder Scrolls and the White-Gold Tower. And yet, the Cyrodiil we saw in Oblivion was more like High Rock than anything else, and it was a fraction of the size of, say, Daggerfall. The seat of government at the White-Gold Tower turned out to be little more than that: a few seats, some corridors, a small library, and that's about it. Everything about Cyrodiil should have been far more impressive.

And the cities: surely, once they decided to compromise the sandbox and put cities in different cells, you would think Bethesda would then be free to make cities like Anvil, Skingrad, or the Imperial City into the cosmopolitan hubs they're supposed to be. But, no, the cities are hardly any bigger than they were in Morrowind. I think the Imperial City might actually be a little smaller than Vivec City. So they compromised the game to add a few more pixels, and frankly, I don't care about graphics. Oblivion is a great example of why: they do not endure. A big selling point of Oblivion was its graphics, and that value has depreciated significantly over time. I would have been fine with marginal improvements upon Morrowind's graphics, but they decided to invest more time and effort into adding pixels than adding substance. That may not seem facially related to Oblivion taking a crap on a lore, but it's very much connected to why they did not (could not) do justice to a portrayal of Cyrodiil. And since they couldn't, they shouldn't have tried. They should've taken us to a different province, one they could've pulled off better.

And there's probably more to gripe about, but this is long enough already.

You've said basically everything I was holding back.

[AngryNord]

What lets Oblivion down a bit for me, is that they only used separate voice actors for Martin Septim and the Emperor. It kinda ruins the immersion a little... Skyrim is at least slightly better in this regard. If say Baurus, Jauffre, Ocato, Mankar Cameron and the guild leaders, at least, had been done by their own voice actors, instead of using the 'run of the mill' Breton, Redguard, Altmer etc voice actors, it'd have done wonders for immersion, and made those characters stand out a little more.

[Mattbott]

lol bearing in mind a lot of the changes implemented in Oblivion were, I'd imagine, based on our feedback on Morrowind, maybe it is underrated in the community

despite its failings i still managed to rack up 600+ hours on it and managed to develop a few work arounds/ coping strategies for the leveling issue and other things i wasnt too keen on

the elephant in the room for me was "Martin". Why that name, for me it's a bit like if a politician appeared in rl called Kvarg the Unholy and no one batted an eyelid

[GoatLiver]

Oblivion was my first TES game like many others here, and from the get go I loved it. But I am still able to see the flaws in it, likewise I see the flaws in Morrowind and Skyrim.

Some of the points people make carry a lot of truth, but some are more subjective. Saying the story and lore can't stand on their own without OOG is a huge exaggeration. I never used that mod and I enjoyed the story well enough, and most of my lore knowledge started from what I found in Oblivion. Granted there are probably many contradictions and exclusions the game was still able to stand on its own. The lore of TES was the reason I wanted to go back and play Morrowind, I thought it was pretty well executed in Oblivion. When I went and played Morrowind, my second ES game, I realised why so many people liked it more. One of the first things I noticed was how nearly everything I wanted changed in Oblivion already existed in Morrowind. It was also noticeable where Oblivion had made improvements over Morrowind.

For me I rate the games Morrowind>Oblivion>Skyrim, I'll explain why later.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Oblivion is underrated because:

1. The level scaling is seriously flawed.
2. NPC faces are disturbing and reek of the uncanny valley.
3. The setting and main quest are both very generic.
...

All true, but these flaws are minor for me and don't prevent me from enjoying the game. I never really care much about the main quest, there are a so many other great quests lines. Level scaling is not a problem if you level efficiently (or use a mod that gives +5 to every attribute on every level).

I have console oblivion and it blows skyrim out of the water. Idk about all the problems you listed as I don't have/see any of them. Even after thousands of hours. I couldn't even play skyrim through twice cause the story is horrible.

I really like to wander around in Skyrim, especially the Falkreath area and the environment around Solitude are great. But there is something wrong with it, every time I make a new character I get bored again after 10-50 hours. But I still think it has great parts, like the abandoned lighthouse, the daedric quests, crafting, etc.

[philfredobob]

was visiting to check on recent news updates and made the choice to check this subforum, found this topic. couldnt resist posting here, sorry folks.

Ah ... its good to see this topic. as some of you may know, my favourite TES is Oblivion.

ya see, im not a lore junkie, i despised most TES lore except for when it was shown in oblivion Oblivion. the way Oblivion showed it and the stuff it added had me hooked, and i was greatly dissapointed when they didnt mention Oblivion much in Skyrim

im not a fool, though. i dont just pretend it doesnt have flaws, it can be irritating to have all the NPCs voiced by the same 4 or 5 people. the levelling system is quite unfair lots of the time (but i never found it as bad as so many people here did ?) and the dungeons are really bland.

but despite this, Oblivion captivated me. its Main Quest was great, Martin is one of the best characters in TES and it was refreshing to not be in the spotlight for once, and a lot more interesting. the Side Quests are the best in TES, every one has memorable characters and events and a great story, though my favourite by far is the Theives Guild. its environments were absolutley beautiful and the music great. and of course the combat had been vastly improved from morrowinds.

so yes, i do think it is underrated in the community. but it wont stop me from lovin' the game.


(Again, sorry i had to post, but i couldnt resist this topics pull)

[Demiverse]

Oblivion is underrated because:

1. The level scaling is seriously flawed.
2. NPC faces are disturbing and reek of the uncanny valley.
3. The setting and main quest are both very generic.
...

All true, but these flaws are minor for me and don't prevent me from enjoying the game. I never really care much about the main quest, there are a so many other great quests lines. Level scaling is not a problem if you level efficiently (or use a mod that gives +5 to every attribute on every level).

The problem is, not everyone likes to level efficiently. Some people (myself included) prefer to play the game at a natural pace, allowing skill/stat increases to happen in the background. Unfortunately, the leveling mechanic discourages this. As I've said in the past, players shouldn't be penalized for their choice of playstyle. It defeats the purpose of an open-world RPG.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Oblivion is underrated because:

1. The level scaling is seriously flawed.
2. NPC faces are disturbing and reek of the uncanny valley.
3. The setting and main quest are both very generic.
...

All true, but these flaws are minor for me and don't prevent me from enjoying the game. I never really care much about the main quest, there are a so many other great quests lines. Level scaling is not a problem if you level efficiently (or use a mod that gives +5 to every attribute on every level).

The problem is, not everyone likes to level efficiently. Some people (myself included) prefer to play the game at a natural pace, allowing skill/stat increases to happen in the background. Unfortunately, the leveling mechanic discourages this. As I've said in the past, players shouldn't be penalized for their choice of playstyle. It defeats the purpose of an open-world RPG.

Yes that's indeed a problem. I did a 100% completion run (haven't finished it yet) and efficient leveling was part of the game for me. But now I'm roleplaying a mage/hunter and leveling can be a problem because when you allow natural progression in Oblivion, like getting +2 on level up, the game will get progressively harder as the levels increase. But I'm on PC so using a +5 mod completely frees me of the worries of efficient leveling. So that's why level scaling is not a problem (if you're on PC)

[Xarnac the Conqueror]

You never have to worry about efficient leveling in Oblivion, just where your difficulty slider is placed. For this reason every RP of mine in Ob had his own difficulty slider setting. Had almost 200 RPs in Oblivion alone and not one min/max leveled or worried about +5s.


Oblivion is considered weak becasue it was the most dumbed down of the series until Skyrim came out. Now a lot of the animosity towards Oblivion has been directed towards Skyrim. For a lot of people, Sky is the most dumbed down and neutered of the series now.

[Andere]

The human nature: when something new comes up, it's disclaimed by the ones who have liked the former. Nothing to be worried about. Elders always dislike what youngsters come forth with.

The way things go...

[Avron the S'wit]

Wise words, Andere!

Honestly, I'm the opposite. At the time I was playing Oblivion, when it was current(ish, meaning it was the most recent release in the series), I found gameplay to be rather fun, but I wasn't very intrigued by the main quest story. I personally thought Morrowind's was much more deep and didn't understand why I had to be Martin's errand boy. However, time has definitely made me realize that I really enjoyed Oblivion. For one, it was easier to get into than the difficult mechanics of Morrowind - you didn't have to worry about being slow everywhere, getting lost in the wilderness, or not being able to hit anything at all with a sword...the real beauty of that being, if you didn't want to. You could turn the HUD off, disable quest markers, or crank up the difficulty - but it didn't define how you played the game from the get go. The world was beautiful, for one, and, once Skyrim came out and more lore from the Fourth Era was created, I began to really appreciate the main quest throughout the game. A new game really deepened my appreciation for the title that came before it.

Personally, I think that these games offer the potential of being as deep or shallow as you want them to be, and that's the real beauty in it. If you want to lose yourself in the environment and RP a character, you can, and you reap the rewards. If you just want to run through, hit people, and get achievements, you can do that, too. Say what you want, but I think that the ability to appeal like to a broad market like that is key (having been in marketing, myself). Sure, newer titles aren't going to have the hardcore fantasy RPG element that Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind had, but that unique feeling of what The Elder Scrolls is all about is, for me at least, still there.

[House of the Wolf]

Huzzah! I second both Andere and Avron. I'd just be ditto'ing them if I typed anything else.

[Xarnac the Conqueror]

The human nature: when something new comes up, it's disclaimed by the ones who have liked the former. Nothing to be worried about. Elders always dislike what youngsters come forth with.

The way things go...

It's not really nostalgia though.