Who is Celia Camoran? (spoilers)

Starfang · **Posted:** Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:13 am

I've beaten Oblivion a couple of times and have always completed the thieves guild quest, but one thing stuck out was the alias (assumed alias) that the hero of Kvatch assumes during the Ultimate Heist is "Celia Camoran". Is/was she Mankar Camoran's daughter? Whoever she was, I'm guessing she must have had a lot of political sway in order to be allowed into the upper part of the palace and into the Elder Scroll library, not to mention requesting an actual Elder Scroll without being questioned.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:18 am

Yes indeed, Celia is thought to be a member of the Camoran Dynasty, although in what fashion is unknown - as the game doesn't really give us too much information (her name is about it). It's most likely that she isn't a direct descendent of Mankar, but possibly a relative more akin to a cousin. I might have to replay the Thieves Guild to see if there aren't any other little hints mentioned int he quest, because I must admit, it's been a long while.

Starfang · **Posted:** Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:41 pm

OblivionDuruza wrote:

Yes indeed, Celia is thought to be a member of the Camoran Dynasty, although in what fashion is unknown - as the game doesn't really give us too much information (her name is about it). It's most likely that she isn't a direct descendent of Mankar, but possibly a relative more akin to a cousin. I might have to replay the Thieves Guild to see if there aren't any other little hints mentioned int he quest, because I must admit, it's been a long while.

I'm thinking that whoever she is, whatever her position within the empire/Imperial sector is; it must be REALLY high up -- considering that given people know that Mankar Camoran is behind the emperor's assassination and they certainly wouldn't let an agent of the Mythic Dawn into the Scrolls Library (much less a common peon) so I am thinking she must either be a noble of high clout (ala Maven Blackbriar) or part of the Elder Council; but really aside from the latter I find it must be difficult if not impossible to arrange a private viewing of an elder scroll when access to such things (such as the 3rd floor and beyond of the palace) are not commonly permitted.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:04 am

I did read one theory that suggested that she rejected the life offered by her family and devoted herself to the Empire. It'sounds a little too romanticised for me to see as being probable, but I guess it is plausible. You're certainly right about her having to hold a fairly high position within the Empire, so I feel that if she were tied to Mankar's plot her involvement would have been revealed during the game. I guess she could be a piece of content that was cut from the game, considering that we know a fair bit did end up being cut - including the whole Elder Council questline, which may have shed light on this very issue.

baratron · **Posted:** Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:44 am

There is the whole question of why Mankar Camoran can wear the Amulet of Kings which has been discussed here a few times (e.g. here). Perhaps the Camorans are a royal or noble family from one of the other provinces of Tamriel? That would be a possible reason for Celia Camoran to be a member of the Elder Council, which would explain why she was allowed in the Elder Scroll Library. She could be loyal to the Empire or a traitor supporting her relative, Mankar - it's impossible to know with the information we have.

Although I'm certain that the Emperor's assassination was an inside job. "A secret passage known only to the Blades" - and there are assassins hiding there? Are they disgruntled ex-Blades, or people who have suborned Blades? It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were members of the Elder Council who thought they'd benefit from the Emperor's death and decided to speed it up a bit, since the old man showed no signs of dying anytime soon.

Tell me more about the Elder Council questline (in a new thread, if it's too off-topic for here). I haven't heard about any cancelled/removes questlines for Oblivion like I have with Skyrim, and I'm extremely curious.

CBR JGWRR · **Posted:** Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:02 am

kind of hard to hide stuff from a dragonborn bloke with CHIM and a Daedric Prince.

PrinceJonathan · **Posted:** Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:22 pm

baratron wrote:

There is the whole question of why Mankar Camoran can wear the Amulet of Kings which has been discussed here a few times (e.g. here). Perhaps the Camorans are a royal or noble family from one of the other provinces of Tamriel? That would be a possible reason for Celia Camoran to be a member of the Elder Council, which would explain why she was allowed in the Elder Scroll Library. She could be loyal to the Empire or a traitor supporting her relative, Mankar - it's impossible to know with the information we have.

Although I'm certain that the Emperor's assassination was an inside job. "A secret passage known only to the Blades" - and there are assassins hiding there? Are they disgruntled ex-Blades, or people who have suborned Blades? It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were members of the Elder Council who thought they'd benefit from the Emperor's death and decided to speed it up a bit, since the old man showed no signs of dying anytime soon.

I tried writing a self-insert fanfic that dealt with that. I ended up deciding Prior Maborel was the spy since he wears a Black Robe. I know it's a silly reason, but those are normally worn by evil-aligned characters.

I made it up to Cloud Ruler, then got stuck because I can't write fight scenes worth a damn. Pity. I had the whole thing planned out with Baurus going to Sancre Tor, Glenroy leading a raiding party on Lake Arrius, Renault's recovering from injuries, and I'm taking training in several basic skills at Cloud Ruler. Then when everyone gets back, we'd go around Cyrodiil getting Aid for Bruma.

The Battle for Bruma would be something more like the Battle for Helm's Deep instead of 15 guys against a couple daedra. I may be awesome, but I'm not awesome enough to write something like that.

---

Another thing. Who is Prince Camarill, and why is the map to the Mythic Dawn headquarters on his tomb?

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:26 am

There is no other reference to Prince Camarril in the games or in the lore, but we have to assume that he was a member of the Septim Dynasty or some other noble line, based on his burial in Green Emperor Way.

baratron wrote:

Tell me more about the Elder Council questline (in a new thread, if it's too off-topic for here). I haven't heard about any cancelled/removes questlines for Oblivion like I have with Skyrim, and I'm extremely curious.

There was originally going to be a questline based around the Elder Council that was apparently cut because the devs decided that it detracted from the main quest (or at least, that's what we've been told, there may have been other reasons). The player would rise through the ranks of the nobility to become the Duke of Colovia. You can read more in this interview. If you're interested we could probably discuss this further in another thread, because there is a not insignificant amount to discuss :mrgreen:

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