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 Post subject: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Journeyman
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ES Games: Oblivion, Skyrim
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I'm playing the latest Special Edition on PS4.

Belathor of Belathor's General Goods in Whiterun seems to have been killed, almost certainly in one of those shock vampire attacks. Thing is it occurred within a very short time into the game.

He is nowhere to be seen. I'm getting the same effects as others, i.e. being treated as a trespasser in the shop and no one will trade with me.

What's the solution on PS4?

I experienced this sort of thing when playing Oblivion on PC. I list an archery tutor but it was reasonably simple after a little help to "resurrect" the character.

Can I do the same on PS4?


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Grand Master
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Supposedly Ysolda is supposed to take over the shop (if she's alive) if he dies, you can check to see if he's dead by going into the whiterun catacombs and see if he's buried there (Whiterun is the only town where the coffins are renamed to citizens that die, I believe)

As for solutions, if he's actually dead there's not much you can do other then reload a save before he died (I don't believe the console editions have a console command function)
If he's just MIA and not dead, either wait for a 24 hour period or reload your last save (sometimes it works). If none of that works, check around town; I've found shopkeepers randomly walking into walls before due to pathing issues or quests setting them in weird areas (Battle of Whiterun, I've had Ysolda holed up in her house and some Greymanes refusing to leave the inn before despite the battle being over and done)


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Journeyman
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ES Games: Oblivion, Skyrim
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Its been several real time days since the vampire attack in which I am almost certain he perished. It was right outside the house I had only bought about an hour before in Whiterun.

This is the limiting factor with the console versions. Bethesda still insist on basing this game on the PC version, with less consideration to the PS4/XBox One users.

Losing important NPCs that are integral to the game is extremely frustrating and really makes me want to give up before I even start. I've only really just started this game and already I can see that it is going to be a life's work to getting anywhere near completion, to lose this NPC so early doesn't instill me with confidence.

In Oblivion it was Arwen, (at least I think that was her name), losing her early on prevented me advancing any further in the archery skill which ruined the game for me. I lost another NPC in Skinrad, who fell off a freaking bridge on his morning constitutional! I needed him to give me a quest to allow me to continue.

I ended up buying the PC version knowing I could manipulate the game using the console and instead of playing the PS3 version it on my 42" plasma, I ended up screwing up my eyes on a 15" laptop just to say I'd done it!

If Bethesda cannot make allowance for console players in the same manner, then they should make the integral NPCs indestructible or at least respawnable.


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:57 am 
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Grand Master
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I think they meant to have the replacement system to handle unintended deaths, but who watches the watchmen? if the back-up dies, who's left?

It would be nice if any npc that is bound to a quest or is a merchant can't be killed by another npc (removing the protection after all quests were handled)
It wouldn't be bad if they just added a npc reset function in the options either, Oblivion in particular felt like a test of patience in the amount of times I had to find someone for a quest, only to find them randomly walking out in the woods a few counties over for no reason or are cursed with the bad design of someone on the dev team deciding to put advanced or master trainers next to an Oblivion Gate spawn point...

If you do get the pc version, the mod "When vampires attack" is a great counter to the heart ache that is the Dawnguard DLC
If not, in future play-throughs, if you avoid talking to the Alik'r thugs that appear in Whiterun (just back out of the conversation without taking a dialogue option) they'll just hang around and help defend the gate from attacks


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:47 am 
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Apprentice
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Posts: 175
Location: Lietuva Šiauliai Ginkūnai
ES Games: GOG.com: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind GOTY, Oblivion GOTY; Steam: Skyrim +HF,DG,DB; Elder Scrolls Online
Platform: PC
Other Profiles: Ciberzombie or CZR
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My solution would be to play without Dawnguard (as i myself do), till you are ready to take looses of useful npcs and don't finish bleak falls burrow and don't start dragon rising till you are ready to take pounding to npcs from dragons.
no Dawnguard enabled = no vampire attacks
no dragon rising = no dragon attacks

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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:08 am 
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Journeyman
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ES Games: Oblivion, Skyrim
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I fear it is too late to switch off Dawnguard. I wouldn't know how anyway. Its like Oblivion in that the DLC availability kicks in after certain actions or periods. Its a crap idea.

I appear to have lost a trader and I have a house next door brimming with looted items to trade for gold. I guess I'll gave to emigrate to another town/city and gradually take shed loads of the loot with me to sell there.

But what is there in place, or what can I put in place to prevent this from happening again? It seems that the random removal of dependant NPCs is a fixture.


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Grand Master
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Alternatives:
Level Speechcraft to 50 and get the merchant perk or move to cities like Solitude or Windhelm (lots of merchants that aren't right next to the door)


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Journeyman
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ES Games: Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PS3 & PC & PS4
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Chaos the N'wah wrote:
Supposedly Ysolda is supposed to take over the shop (if she's alive) if he dies, you can check to see if he's dead by going into the whiterun catacombs and see if he's buried there (Whiterun is the only town where the coffins are renamed to citizens that die, I believe)

As for solutions, if he's actually dead there's not much you can do other then reload a save before he died (I don't believe the console editions have a console command function)
If he's just MIA and not dead, either wait for a 24 hour period or reload your last save (sometimes it works). If none of that works, check around town; I've found shopkeepers randomly walking into walls before due to pathing issues or quests setting them in weird areas (Battle of Whiterun, I've had Ysolda holed up in her house and some Greymanes refusing to leave the inn before despite the battle being over and done)


I actually got to have the first dialogue with Ysolda today. I got to the last section of chat and wouldn't you credit it, the goddam vampires turned up again. Ysolda wasn't among the corpses littering the pavement outside my gaff, so I assume she hasn't met her demise this time! But she did hightail it out of there and I have no idea where she went.

On your advice I went and had a look around the Hall of the Dead. I found Belathor's coffin but it was regisering as empty. So what does that mean? Is he still alive and wandering around someplace?

Whilst I was in there I met up with Andur. I went looking for his amulet which I failed to find, (this time). Evidently its camouflaged with a wreath. But in the meantime I lightfingered some gold and a book from Andurs' little room and now I'm the scourge of the neighbourhood and the soldiers won't leave me alone. I've slaughtered a couple which has made things decidedly worse.

What's the best strategy here then?

I thought of hiding in my house and temporarily dropping all of my possessions so I can go to jail and serve my time without losing anything but I don't really understand how it all works.

Any advice?


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Apprentice
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Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:51 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Lietuva Šiauliai Ginkūnai
ES Games: GOG.com: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind GOTY, Oblivion GOTY; Steam: Skyrim +HF,DG,DB; Elder Scrolls Online
Platform: PC
Other Profiles: Ciberzombie or CZR
UESPoints: 0
Frodo-Baginses wrote:
scourge of the neighbourhood and the soldiers won't leave me alone. I've slaughtered a couple which has made things decidedly worse.

What's the best strategy here then?

I thought of hiding in my house and temporarily dropping all of my possessions so I can go to jail and serve my time without losing anything but I don't really understand how it all works.

Any advice?


Get to other hold (region) wait 72 hours , put all your items somewhere safe (if you have stolen ones) and return to that hold/city and first guards you meet WILL try arrest you , submit and done with problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Grand Master
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Frodo-Baginses wrote:
I actually got to have the first dialogue with Ysolda today. I got to the last section of chat and wouldn't you credit it, the goddam vampires turned up again. Ysolda wasn't among the corpses littering the pavement outside my gaff, so I assume she hasn't met her demise this time! But she did hightail it out of there and I have no idea where she went.

On your advice I went and had a look around the Hall of the Dead. I found Belathor's coffin but it was regisering as empty. So what does that mean? Is he still alive and wandering around someplace?

No, he's definitely dead if you found his coffin, there's a bug associated with npc inventories not properly transferring after death to the coffins.

As for Ysolda, she should take over the shop, but I know that early editions of Skyrim that she would bug out

Quote:
Whilst I was in there I met up with Andur. I went looking for his amulet which I failed to find, (this time). Evidently its camouflaged with a wreath. But in the meantime I lightfingered some gold and a book from Andurs' little room and now I'm the scourge of the neighbourhood and the soldiers won't leave me alone. I've slaughtered a couple which has made things decidedly worse.

What's the best strategy here then?

I thought of hiding in my house and temporarily dropping all of my possessions so I can go to jail and serve my time without losing anything but I don't really understand how it all works.

Any advice?

ciberzombie wrote:

Get to other hold (region) wait 72 hours , put all your items somewhere safe (if you have stolen ones) and return to that hold/city and first guards you meet WILL try arrest you , submit and done with problem.

What cz said will work to clear your bounty problem


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Journeyman
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Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:22 pm
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ES Games: Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PS3 & PC & PS4
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About putting things safe.

The only house I've managed to purchase so far is the first one in Whiterun. Basically I haven't managed to accumulate enough gold to progress to further properties.

According to the Wiki and the Official Guide, my fine is likely to deplete more than half of what I have left. So if I hide the total cash as well all the hooky gear I've nicked in my house chest the choice is prison - am I right?

Just a case sleeping it off and facing upto my responsibilities!


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 Post subject: Re: Belathor - MIA!! Help please.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:31 am 
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Initiate
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ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
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Ysolda will actually inherit The Bannered Mare if Hulda dies, not Belethor's shop. She and Hulda both make mention of this. She CAN end up in Belethor's though, but she has no merchant dialogue because she isn't supposed to be there. Even if she takes over the inn, her dialogue is bugged so you can't barter with her. She also won't give you the Ebony Blade quest. It's almost like the game doesn't treat her as a real merchant no matter what. Belethor has died a couple of times on me as well, but it's no great loss. There are plenty of other merchants around, so don't let that ruin your build, friend.


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