UESP Forums

Discuss the uesp.net site and Elder Scrolls topics.
* FAQ    * Search
* Register    * Login
It is currently Sun Mar 02, 2025 2:44 pm

Loading

All times are UTC

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:51 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:43 am
Posts: 1415
ES Games: Oblivion
Platform: PC
Status: Thinking about something.
UESPoints: 0
(apologies in advance if I get to deep into this)

We are basically told that the High Elves are the best. Bluntly put. Smarter than the others, more cultured, longer lives etc.
Why then be that so are they so insufferably arrogant? If I were a superior being. I'd be humble and calm and patient. Not caustic, blatantly arrogant, and crude.
Arrogance is often a cover for insecurity. If not always so. If the High Elves truly are superior then why are they so arrogant? If it is a fact that you as a race are better, then why add to it with idiotic arrogance?
I do not understand. Opinions?

_________________
Image


(Previously The Black Weasel)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:37 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 279
UESPoints: 0
Dunning-Kruger Effect


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:08 pm 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:43 am
Posts: 1415
ES Games: Oblivion
Platform: PC
Status: Thinking about something.
UESPoints: 0
So you are saying the thalmor are incompitent and illude themselves to think that they are superior?

_________________
Image


(Previously The Black Weasel)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:03 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:34 pm
Posts: 279
UESPoints: 0
"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do."
Isaac Asimov, As quoted in The Mammoth Book of Zingers, Quips, and One-Liners (2004) edited by Geoff Tibballs, p. 299


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:32 pm 
Offline
Associate
Associate
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:05 am
Posts: 11
ES Games: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, ESO
Platform: PC
Other Profiles: misskokane(steam)
UESPoints: 0
I believe that the psychology behind Altmer arrogance is similar to the one in real life humans.

Because we don't really see much of the family life in the game since there aren't shown any Altmer children, and no elf children for that matter, it's easier to forget they were once children and a lot of character flaws, like arrogance, are strongly related to the upbringing.

I believe that because of their culture and of how their parents raised them, each family will raise their children at the same high standards.

<< Arrogance is a way of manipulating others’ perceptions of yourself in order to avoid taking a “hit” to your self-esteem. In this case, however, the basic strategy is to get others to see you as special, perfect or flawless — diverting attention from your ordinary imperfections, weaknesses and failings — and thereby keeping your self-esteem artificially inflated. >>

As we've come to know the Altmers they are crude, strict, rigid, demanding and serious. They don't seem like the all-loving parents. They look like they have high expectations and are very strict with their children, just like their parents were with them. There’s also a case of teachers abusing children in the College of Aldmeri Propriety in ESO.

All children are born with the natural desire for love, care and attention, which they should receive unconditionally. Arrogance is often linked to early negative experiences like disapproval and criticism from parents or tutors.

It is quite normal for children to believe that the world revolves around them, but they usually go past that and come to acknowledge other people's feelings and desires. In some cases, though, a child can get stuck in this self-centered phase. Sometimes, his ability to receive love, care and attention has to be earned and it is conditional upon being a certain way and reaching certain standards. They could also figure out that the rewards and punishments given out by their parents are a direct result of how they are perceived, and those perceptions can be manipulated.

From such experiences of competition, disapproval and conditional love, the child comes to see others' perceptions as directly dependent upon his well-being. As a result, the child will show a fear of negative perception and will avoid showing any signs of vulnerability, weakness and imperfections.

The basic strategy for coping with this fear of vulnerability to others’ perceptions is to manipulate others’ perceptions — to ensure that there is never anything for them to disapprove of or criticize. They do this by drawing attention and exaggerating their own strengths, qualities and accomplishments while hiding and denying any weaknesses. They believe that by excessive boastfulness the world will just agree.

I'm not sure if anyone is actually questioning the Altmers' accomplishments and intelligence, but one thing's sure, they find them arrogant.

<< There is no better lie than a lie based on truth. The mask of arrogance likes to surround itself with “truths” which reinforce the image of invulnerability. >>

If everything they claim about their race is accurate, which I honestly believe is true, then some would say they are proud, not arrogant.

<< Pride is a state of self-esteem and perceived self-worth which may or may not be exaggerated. Ideally, it is a state in which you recognize your own good qualities in their own right, rather than exaggerating your good qualities to mask or deny your vulnerabilities. >>

I believe in the case of the Altmers it's a bit more than pride. I like them for being intelligent and cultured but I have a problem with their attitude.

_________________
"Shadows are metaphysical amphibians with one foot on the terra firma of common sense and the other in the murky waters of non-being."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:01 am 
Offline
Layman
Layman

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:44 pm
Posts: 4
ES Games: Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: PC
UESPoints: 0
When was the last time you tried to have a serious conversation with a monkey at the zoo? That's how elves feel when they have to deal with the lesser species.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:14 am 
Offline
Undecided
Undecided
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:37 am
Posts: 4743
Location: Edge of the world and all Western civilization
ES Games: Oblivion (SI); Skyrim (DB)
Platform: Steam, XBox
Status: Reality and I aren't on speaking terms right now
Other Profiles: DarkSpark135
UESPoints: 5
More like trying to talk to a race of people whose life expectancy is 16 years.

You can talk to them as children, even teach a special few of them plenty enough so they have a decent understanding of some deep philosophies. But they will never have an adult's level of experience.

As engaging as you can make conversation with a teenager who is now at the end of their lifespan, you can't learn anything new from them. So if one of them tells you that they know something better than you, reactions ranging from skepticism to indignation will ensue.

_________________
Baurus: Our job is to get the Emperor out of situations like this. Though I'll admit, things aren't going exactly to plan.

Casandra: At the moment, the deadliest weapon at my disposal is a goblin's head on a stick. I'd be worried if this was the plan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:06 am 
Offline
Imperial Legate
Imperial Legate
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:03 pm
Posts: 4359
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, ESO
Platform: PC, Xbox, Xbox 360
Status: Fresh
UESPoints: 20
The psychology of even the most open-minded Altmer is one of comfortable, smug superiority. In their minds they are the parents and all other races the impudent children. They believe Nirn to be their birthright, as their myths portray them as the direct offspring of the Aedra, not simply creations. They also maintain - accurately - that everything the other races do is based on Elven principles. From Alchemy to Blacksmithing, to book writing and sailing, the Aldmer did it first, and the Altmer see themselves as their true heirs. It's debatable on whether being the first to do these things actually makes them superior as a race, but it's an undisputed fact that they were the first.

_________________
Monsters are bred in labyrinths, labyrinths are bred from walls. There is a reason the Giants choose to remain nomadic rather than follow their shield kin the Nords in building permanent settlements. The Tower is the beginning of all walls.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:02 am 
Offline
Warder
Warder
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:34 pm
Posts: 432
Location: Finland
ES Games: Skyrim, Oblivion
Platform: PC
UESPoints: 0
Like has been stated before, basically everything the other races do, has been based on their culture. Language, arts, crafts, laws, etc. There's also the whole lifespan difference thing. A 400 years old altmer arguing with a 40 years old human, could possibly feel like s/he's talking to an impudent teenager, one who's incapable of ever achieving the same amount of knowledge and experience the elves do. It's pretty much the same in real life. If you are an adult having an argument with a teenager, it's very easy to dismiss their opinions as juvenile/stupid (even if they actually were valid ones) and you sure as heck don't want to lose to a "mere kid" cause that's just embarrassing.
Being arrogant may not be the way to go about it but the High Elves do have some actual reasons to be so.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:31 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 285
Location: Rhode Island
ES Games: Arena-Beaten,Daggerfall-Beaten,Battlespire-beaten,Redguard-Still haven't Beaten,Morrowind GOTY-beaten,OblivionGOTY-beaten,Skyrim and its DLC Xbox360-Beaten,ESO-Beaten except DLC(PS4)
Platform: PC,PS4,Xbox One
UESPoints: 0
My feelings in regards to the Altmers views on regarding their own supposed superiority is what culture in the real world hasn't suffered from a misplaced superiority complex at some point or another.They have a lot to brag about but how much of their accomplishments are owed to their brilliance and how much of it is owed to not having a mere 80 something year lifespan. Just imagine how far advanced the human race would be now if we had even today's modern lifespan just a hundred years ago,or throughout all of human history that's not even factoring in if we had lifespans of 400 Years or more.It easy to be superior to other people when you start a good deal ahead of them in the race.The other races have made a lot of greats strides themselves despite shorter lifespans and other hurdles like being ruled by Dragons for several centuries,or Enslaved for several centuries and several centuries behind in cultural and technological sophistication.That kind of makes other races contributions more impressive.Whats more impressive a important advancement made by a well to do,long lived educated person born into a prosperous society or one made by a barely literate farmer in much less fortunate society.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:36 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:51 am
Posts: 219
ES Games: Skyrim
Platform: PS3
UESPoints: 0
Pilaf The Defiler wrote:
The psychology of even the most open-minded Altmer is one of comfortable, smug superiority. In their minds they are the parents and all other races the impudent children. They believe Nirn to be their birthright, as their myths portray them as the direct offspring of the Aedra, not simply creations. They also maintain - accurately - that everything the other races do is based on Elven principles. From Alchemy to Blacksmithing, to book writing and sailing, the Aldmer did it first, and the Altmer see themselves as their true heirs. It's debatable on whether being the first to do these things actually makes them superior as a race, but it's an undisputed fact that they were the first.


They weren't the first, though. The people of altmora, yokuda, and akavir did all those things simultaneously and without the involvment of the altmer. Also, while the altmer claim that all races of elves come from them, the falmer and dwemer seem to predate the aldmer's voyage to tamriel.


Last edited by Leckan on Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:19 am 
Offline
Imperial Legate
Imperial Legate
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:03 pm
Posts: 4359
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, ESO
Platform: PC, Xbox, Xbox 360
Status: Fresh
UESPoints: 20
We're talking about psychology here, not facts. To both the Elves and the other races of Tamriel, the Aldmer did it first. What's important is that people believe that, not that it's literally true. That's the mythos.

_________________
Monsters are bred in labyrinths, labyrinths are bred from walls. There is a reason the Giants choose to remain nomadic rather than follow their shield kin the Nords in building permanent settlements. The Tower is the beginning of all walls.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:55 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:51 am
Posts: 219
ES Games: Skyrim
Platform: PS3
UESPoints: 0
Pilaf The Defiler wrote:
We're talking about psychology here, not facts. To both the Elves and the other races of Tamriel, the Aldmer did it first. What's important is that people believe that, not that it's literally true. That's the mythos.


I am as well. Their psychology is based on embellishments and fabrications, they try so hard to convince other races, and perhaps themselves, of a fantasy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:51 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:00 pm
Posts: 215
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: Xbox 360,PC
UESPoints: 0
Leckan wrote:
Pilaf The Defiler wrote:
We're talking about psychology here, not facts. To both the Elves and the other races of Tamriel, the Aldmer did it first. What's important is that people believe that, not that it's literally true. That's the mythos.


I am as well. Their psychology is based on embellishments and fabrications, they try so hard to convince other races, and perhaps themselves, of a fantasy.


They essentially codified magic, they fathered most of the Races of Tamriel. To a degree they're perfectly correct in being snobbish. Heck the present incarnation of the Dominion are close to conquering Tamriel just by bluffing and trickery. For a race you accuse of having a false sense of superiority they've managed to make their allies and even many of their enemies believe it.They have alot of valid reasons to brag.

_________________
Abagaianye An [False] Agea Ada


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:57 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:51 am
Posts: 219
ES Games: Skyrim
Platform: PS3
UESPoints: 0
Dunmerdude wrote:
Leckan wrote:
Pilaf The Defiler wrote:
We're talking about psychology here, not facts. To both the Elves and the other races of Tamriel, the Aldmer did it first. What's important is that people believe that, not that it's literally true. That's the mythos.


I am as well. Their psychology is based on embellishments and fabrications, they try so hard to convince other races, and perhaps themselves, of a fantasy.


They essentially codified magic, they fathered most of the Races of Tamriel. To a degree they're perfectly correct in being snobbish. Heck the present incarnation of the Dominion are close to conquering Tamriel just by bluffing and trickery. For a race you accuse of having a false sense of superiority they've managed to make their allies and even many of their enemies believe it.They have alot of valid reasons to brag.


I'll grant you that about magic. However, I don't see how they fathered any of the races in Tamriel and you admit yourself that their reasons to brag stem from trickery and bluffing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:42 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:00 pm
Posts: 215
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
Platform: Xbox 360,PC
UESPoints: 0
Every other "Mer" race is descendant from Altmer exiled for political unorthodoxy. The Bretons descend from Direnni nobles having flings with their human serfs . They've managed to make the Southern Beast folk voluntary slaves, and defeat the Empire in a war purely through convincing others that they had power over the moon and couldn't be defeated in battle.

They have a Superiority Complex certainly, but I can see were it's coming from, and it's not low self esteem on their part. And they seem to have a nack for convincing others of their superiority.

_________________
Abagaianye An [False] Agea Ada


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: About High Elves Psychology.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:21 am 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:51 am
Posts: 219
ES Games: Skyrim
Platform: PS3
UESPoints: 0
Dunmerdude wrote:
Every other "Mer" race is descendant from Altmer exiled for political unorthodoxy. The Bretons descend from Direnni nobles having flings with their human serfs . They've managed to make the Southern Beast folk voluntary slaves, and defeat the Empire in a war purely through convincing others that they had power over the moon and couldn't be defeated in battle.

They have a Superiority Complex certainly, but I can see were it's coming from, and it's not low self esteem on their part. And they seem to have a nack for convincing others of their superiority.


That's arguable though. The Altmer and perhaps the Maormer are themselves descendents of the original Aldmer that came from Aldmeris. The Dwemer and Falmer are mysteries as they seem to have existed in Tamriel before the the Altmer were recorded to have ventured from the Summerset Isles into Tamriel, so either way they are not preceded by the Altmer but rather the original Aldmer or are perhaps even originated in Tamriel.
It was later that the Dunmer, Bosmer, and Orsimer, that branched away from the Altmer and were each changed by Azura, Y'ffre, and Malacath, respectively. So I wouldn't even call them descendents of the Altmer, they were just Altmer that were transformed.

But yes, my original assessment was that the Altmer have a knack for embellishing or fabricating their supposed superiority over others, and it convinces some, but it seems to mostly convince themselves. I don't know what it stems from, low self-esteem or otherwise, but I'm not even going to try touching that.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Sponsored Links

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group