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 Post subject: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:10 am 
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Associate
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Hello everyone. First things first:

Yes a whole race does not necessarily have to belong to one religion or Etada or whatever. :)

In general when reading Lore articles, I see that Men are more likely to lean towards Aedra, especially nine divines. Also the Men rebellion against Mer (Ayleids) is supported by Akatosh. Later, One Man, Talos rised to Aedra. Also his lineage was supported by Akatosh.

Q1- Why are men mostly favored by Aedra, even though Mer are supposed to be decedents of them?

Also, I get that CHIM is a way of realizing your own potential, becoming one and rising to godhood.

I think that both Almsivi and Tiber Septim raised to godhood with this method. But Tiber Septim used a Aedric way when Alsmivi used a Padomic way. (Lorkhan's heart) Even though in lore there's no exact line that says they all used CHIM, but that is what I get from it. Also Lorkhan in some textures is supposed to be wishing Men realize their potential and by applying CHIM.

Q2- What do you think about my extractions


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:55 pm 
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Only 3 people have managed CHIM - Tiber, Vivec, and Mankar Camoran. Lorkhan tried and failed (on purpose, as you've alluded to) and the daedric princes are aware of it, but cant use it. Tiber did it through sheer force of will, Vivec by dealings with Molag Bal, and Mankar by... a whole heap of messed up stuff. No one else, certainly no mortal or semi mortal, knows it.

It isn't quite the same as being a god, and it certainly isn't a pre-requisite. Its more like a lucid dream on which your dream is reality...

Talos is a divine, not an Aedra. The latter is an elven concept that means ancestor spirit - something Talos cannot be. Another thing to consider is what the 9 divines are - a mix up of gods from human, elven and somewhere in between pantheons intended to promote unity in Alessia's empire. Of course they would favour humans, they are their chief worshippers. The elves of course, venerate their own set still - and are blessed by them.


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Thanks for the reply. So there isnt a pattern like mer favored by aedra men favored by daedra?


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:56 pm 
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Nope. Both are equally favoured by their view of the underlying Aedric beings - Only Dunmer venerate Daedra in particular. With mixed results.


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:42 pm 
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ALMSIVI did not use CHIM to achieve divinity (not collectively, anyway). They tapped into the divine heart of Lorkhan using Kagrenac's tools; that's all they needed to become living gods. Vivec achieved CHIM separately from this act.

CHIM is just CHIM; there aren't really different kinds of it. It's a perspective on the whole universe and your place in it. As CBR says, it allows you to reshape the universe as you desire, as a lucid dreamer might shape their dream.

Additionally, Talos did not ascend solely by way of CHIM. There's a whole lot of complicated metaphysics involved in why Talos is a divine, but the super basic version is that three (special) mortals acted out a myth that lies at the heart of the universe and, by virtue of its importance, became "important" themselves.

There are many kinds of divinity in TES, and many paths to it. At least six, in fact (according to Vivec, I believe). I've recently seen it claimed that Talos took five of them, you know, just to be sure.

I have a question of my own, though: I remember talking about Camoran having achieved CHIM, and being convinced, but I don't recall how this was deduced. CBR, do you care to elaborate on that?


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:14 pm 
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It was you who told me, it was why I summarised as a whole heap of messed up stuff was because you didn't say then, but it sure does make sense him knowing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:44 pm 
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Haha, wow, I feel kind of dumb now.

I'll do some reading and see if I can't refigure it out.

Edit: Well, I can't seem to retrace whatever steps led me to that conclusion. Or perhaps I have retraced them and found them lacking. It seems to me that Mankar only knew about CHIM, rather than actually achieving it. Though if he did know it, that would handily explain how he became dragonborn.


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:55 am 
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Exactly, Oblivion made it very clear that Mankar was dragonborn, and him making himself dragonborn is far more logical than Akatosh doing it. And lets face it, he is on the right side of insanity to risk moving beyond mere awareness.


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:30 am 
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Thanks guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:28 am 
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Quote:
At least six, in fact (according to Vivec, I believe).


Plus whatever craziness Dagoth Ur committed, which I believe Vivec referred to as a false walking way

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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:37 pm 
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Common speculation pegs Dagoth Ur as having "reverse CHIMed." Instead of realizing that everything is part of the Godhead, Ur decided everything was part of him and tried to make the whole world realize and accept it through corprus.

Again, speculation.


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 Post subject: Re: Things that I do not understand
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:54 am 
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Short answer, Alessia.

Long(er) answer, the Aedra aren't really favoring man, they just seemed to have found reason to appreciate the mortal realm, and this has been a boon to both man and mer. It's just that mer are generally more disdainful of the mortal realm.

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