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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:11 am 
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Thelastdovah wrote:
There goes my Dagon vs Alduin debate. :(



Alduin. MK's covered that one somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:12 am 
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legoless wrote:
The Blackwood Company's leaders were hardened veterans. Pretty impressive gear too.


Yeah, Argonians are fierce warriors. we also have to remember that the Blackwood Company does use Mages, which might give it another advantage.

DikaSmausha wrote:
I don't think the numbers would matter as much as training. Look that the Battle of Thermopylae. (I am exaggerating a bit.) I think the Companions would take them.


Wasn't the main advantage during the Battle of Thermopylae the Terrain?

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:14 pm 
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What about the Morag Tong versus the dark brotherhood?

I think that the Morag Tong would have the advantage because Mephala has always had the dark elves, and therefore the Morag Tong's backs. Meanwhile, the dark brotherhood worship a strangely corrupted version of Sithis

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Wut? The Morag Tong has always been limited to Morrowind, so even in it's height, it would not have beaten the Dark Brotherhood, at it's height. If anything, they are even now. Both organizations are shown to been weakened and only a shadow of their former glories. The Dark Elves do not back the Morag Tong anymore, explained in Dragonborn.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:21 pm 
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In Morrowind you help the Morag Tong wipe out the Dark Brotherhood's efforts at expanding onto Vvardenfell. Something to consider.

The Morag Tong's status in the Fourth Era is unclear. The "Morang" guy in Riften says they disbanded, but a small army of them is nevertheless present on Solstheim under the employ of Hlaalu. They also try to hunt down the player for being an illegal assassin (DB) in Morrowind territory. Seeing as the Brotherhood is barely holding it together, I think they'd be obliterated if the Morag Tong had any interest in Skyrim.

As for an all-out battle, I think the Brotherhood in its heyday would easily wipe out the Tong, simply due to numbers and ruthlessness.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Mankar Camoran or Mannimarco?

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Hissien wrote:
Mankar Camoran or Mannimarco?

If Dagon has Camoran's back than the King of Worms is in trouble but I believe Mannimarco is the more powerful between the two. Camoran relies too heavily on Dagon's power.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Well even with Dagon helping him, Mannimarco is a God in his own right.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Given that Mankar achieved what he did through Dagon's power, and Mannimarco did not rely on such help, I would say Mannimarco.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:44 pm 
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If we are talking about Mannimarco the god, then we'd have to give it to him.
but If we were talking about Mannimarco's mortal form that we fight in Oblivion, I'd give it to Mankar Camoran.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Mannimarco would win. Mankar's just a servant of Dagon and was permitted to use a part of his power. Mankar managed to build a realm of his own but he ended up as a walking sigil stone and was easily dispatched by the COC and didn't really do that much. Mannimarco on the other hand, he did plenty to the Mage's guild and destroyed one of their guildhalls. Not directly but people under his orders did that. He also refuses to stay dead. The agent of the blades killed him in the events of the warp of the west and the COC killed him but i suspect he was weakened at that point due to him being in his mortal form. Unless you count the mod which puts him in his DF form and makes him a proper boss fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Relevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Can we raise it from the dead if there is room for more disccussion? :imperial:

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:28 pm 
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It might be better to use that thread as a reference for this thread's discussion. Keep things in the same place and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Well we have to consider where they are fighting, in their own realms they are nigh unkillable (unless you are a player xD) but on Nirn they cannot really be slain anyway or at least that is how it works with Daedra, though Mannimarco is just... something else.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:56 am 
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To my knowledge, Mannimarco just exempts most rules about mortality.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:27 pm 
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Miraak vs Dagoth Ur

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:35 am 
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I'd like to see their mind-controlled armies battle. Solstheim vs Sixth House.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:48 am 
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Dagoth Ur is a god.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:12 am 
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Slow Time, Whirlwind Sprint, hit Heart, done.

So much for godhood.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:20 am 
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For the early, I would like to keep this nice and short<_< well "try" really :alduin:
Hidden:
But I can see myself mixed about the dual with Mannimarco vs Mankar. For starters, it boils down to lore and earlier games vs what we experienced in Oblivion.. the later was far from impressive. Yea granted he held power that rivaled the greatest powers of the Mage's Guild at the time, I somehow cannot see him the same as some mighty lich king of ultimate power..
As for lore.. he's a monster.. simple as that. Not only is he powerful to make any mortal flinch just from his name, he had the cunning and intellect to see to his desires.

As for Mankar.. well for starters they would clearly not be playing in a field that favors one. Mankar has his paradise, granted he had to borrow power that was not his. On an even field, his only possible advantage is Dagon and his knowledge.. but that's sadly not much.. Dagon for one saw him more of a puppet, and surely would of discarded him the moment he served his use. As for the knowledge, it's hard to say how much may be true or how helpful it can be... aside from aiding in a full scale invasion from oblivion.. Still, he is dependent. While Mannimarco may indeed rely on his hordes, he himself has the power to subdue them. +1 Mannimarco
Now if we threw Sotha Sil into the picture... eh.. :roll:

As for the battle of Ur vs Miraak... :alduin:
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Dagoth is by all means powerful, he is very much more powerful than the Tribunals.. but he is still a mortal god. The Heart that empowers him is vastly great, especially seeing as his nature flows along the same as teh heart, rather than against :Twisted Evil: He had godly powers compared to few that could match, an unlimited supply of energy, and the means to bring about powerful divine curses and havoc indirectly. Simple to say, his main weakness is indeed the Heart of Lorkhan.

As for Miraak, he was wise and powerful, same old story right? What about being the first dragonborn, few can boast that. He held the power of many shouts and was a threat to even his former masters. He may have been powerful and a force to fear, but that doesn't mean he can't be taken down. Then we have Mora.. who saved him from fate and offered him servitude. He had access to untold secrets and knowledge, something that in itself was power. He may have grown bored reading so much.. but he certainly would know the answers to many questions. Thus is this, he had gain powers unique to dragonborns that made him even far more of a threat, coupled with Mora's influence, we can be glad he was kept in oblivion for so long. In game refered to the the PC as being so powerful as the dragonborn, he was near demi-god, possible more powerful than Peryite.. and we all should know just how powerful the Princes are.
The thing is, Miraak at first was more powerful than he, mocking him at that and displaying his command over even the souls of dragons. Draws to question, just how empowered was he?

I can personally say Miraak has my vote. The two by far are very powerful, but ultimate control over wills kind of tops mere mind manipulations. Aside from that, the Heart was a massive factor, but I would not be surprised if Miraak somehow learned how to undermine it.. bc of secrets and all.. Sad to say, but unlimited power doesn't always mean better.. you need to know how to use it too :wink:

I have to say, in theory that last one was a good match up. I do want to know though... who by far had the greater power at their primes? Dwemer or Ayleid...

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:47 am 
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The Dwemer made a god, but if we are talking actual *power* I would give it to the Ayleids. But the dwemer were capable of feats of engineering that still stand today, and they would be a force to be reckoned with, but they are godless. The Ayleids (some of them at least) have daedra on their side, and if all the Ayleids united it would be one hell of a fight, but in an all out war I have to give to the dwemer.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:58 am 
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I don't know honestly. Even the Chimer, who were far less technologically advance, were able to defeat the Dwemer, even with all of their machines. If they actually had a chance to use their god though, I'm sure the Dwemer would win no contest.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:51 am 
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Miraak was the first Dragonborn but was forgotten by history. He has devoured hundreds of dragon souls and is the most powerful user of the thu'um due to the knowledge granted to him by Mora. It's said that his duel with the Jailor priest tore Sosthiesm from the mainland. I think he would win due to how overpowered the Thu'um is.

As for the Ayleids vs the Dwemer. The Dwemer would win due to their huge armies. They are most likely to have used their machines for their armies and dwemer machines tend to be very dangerous. A centurion could take out up to 100 Ayleids before they take it out. Plus, they have the Numidum which destroyed Alinor's entire fleet and caused them to surrender within 1 hour when Tiber used it to unite Tameriel and i think that was just using a small amount of it's power. Imagine how much damage it could do at it's full power.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Scrolls Lore Versus thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Okay, I've got one.

Hows about this: Lord Harkon VS Mankar Camoran ?

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