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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:29 am 
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I'm glad you're interested, I guess?

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:27 am 
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I wrote up a list, and then saw K Candyman's post. Mine was identical.


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:31 pm 
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I am a history & linguistics student so this is an academic viewpoint.

Altmer-clearly Roman/Chinese with a little English.
Bosmer-most likely Germanic/south American.
Dunmer-Japanese/British.
Imperial-Roman clearly, with some English tradition.
Breton-Britons, as in northern France/southern England.
Nords-Nordic/Scottish.
Redguaurds-Afro/Mongolian.
Khajiit-a melting pot.
Argonian-Germanic.
Orc-Scottish.
(I'm not using British/English interchangeably, there is a difference)

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Last edited by NerevarRising on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:35 pm 
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I'm interested, what do you see as being the Germanic influence upon the Argonian culture, NerevarRising? The centralised Hist-mind structure of the Argonian society seems to me to be quite contrary to everything the ancient, and even in some respects modern Germanic peoples have stood for.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:52 am 
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The Argonians are likely Germanic not so much because of their culture. Which is strange, but because of the environment of Black Marsh & their ingame ddescription/lore. Was never successfully conquered, masters of guerilla warfare etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:31 am 
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I had nothing better to do than to put all of this together.
Spoiler:
Note: In real life & TES, Lighter skinned folk in the North & West. More diverse & exotic folk in the South & East. (Dunmer, Orsimer, & Reguard exceptions will be somewhat explained)


LETZ GET STARTED!!!! This'll take awhile, so take it in slowly & please, do use your resources to check my work. Do not just respond without following up on what I have posted.

OP NOTE There are 5 over-arching stories for TES...& to some degree Reality.

1. The Struggle between Elemental Forces seen as Gods. (Order & Chaos/Anu & Padomay)
2. The Struggle between Aedra & Daedra/Angels & Demons (Personified Archetypes of Vice & Virtue)
3. The Struggle between Religions/Culture (which over-time define the racial divide.)
4. The Struggle between Kingdoms/Tribes/Clans (which play into Religion/Culture/Race)
5. The Struggle between You & your purpose...& the affect you have on the rest of the world.

Nord = Norse/Germanic/Slavic (Northern Europeans...including parts of Slavic Russia).


Cyrodilic = Eastern Rome, Byzantium. Possibly Constantinople as the capitol, based upon the word Cyriilic, which is Greek/Slavic language used by the Byzantine Empire.

Even Wikipedia says ,"The origins of Byzantium are shrouded in legend."

Check it out


Talos Stormcrown/Tiber Septim = Caesar


The Blades = Norse/Germanic VARANGIAN GUARD. The Byzantine Emperor actually employed them as his personal elite body guards. (stfu about Star Trek).

just check them out on Wikipedia: VIKING + BERSERKR + ELITE CRUSADERS = EPIC AWESOME


Akavir = Possibly Japanese influence (dragon culture), considering the armor & weapon design...but the Nords already had Lamelar Armor which looks Oriental. Understand that the Trojans had similar armor as well.
Believe it or not...thanks to Marco Polo & The Silk Road....another road was used by the Norse/Germanic...which gives a possible explanation for many things.

Enjoy learning about how both a viking long-sword is made as well as where the material for it came from.

Simply youtube for: Secrets of the Viking Sword (2012) full



Breton/Reachmen = Celtic, Gaelic, Gaulic (Western Europe [France/Spain], & England/Ireland/Scotland).


Orcs = Russo Mongols, Huns, Turks....Scythians. Because they're everywhere.


Yokudan'/Redguard = Phoenician/Egyptian/Caananite/Atlantean.

They seem to be closest to the Sons of Ham & Egyptus according to Biblical Legend & some Ancient Egyptian sources.

After the Deluvian Flood, the Ademic Son of Noah, Ham, had children with Egyptus, who was the last surviving Caananite.
The Ademic Race was not necessarily "White" either. According to Genesis, Cain simply had darker skin...which only gives a vague contrast, not distinct identification to Ademics (race of Adam) being White.

After Egypt & Atlantus were established, some say the Phoenician Sea-Merchants came about from the coast of Northern Africa. During this time & before, Atlantis (Yokuda) is said to have existed until it sunk.

They are neither Semitic nor Arab, yet take some stylization from both...or just the opposite....they were the origin of those styles.


Altmer/High Elves/Ayleid (Aliens) = Egyptian/Babylonian/Sumerian/Iranian

This is how you write Aldmer, in Greek letters: AΛΔΜEΡ

Most people haven't mentioned anything close to this. It's really disappointing.

I'll admit, there is some mystery regarding this race of course & it will be continually debated....but you've gotta be retarded to not consider the Persian Empire.

It seems like the Ayleid/Aldmer are a cross between Assyrian Egypt (conquered), Babylonia, & Persia in general. They were highly developed civilizations, both which a mass exodus of people from among them for varying reasons.

According to the Enuma Elish & Book of Enoch, some of us are genetically engineered by Aliens who posed as gods & ruled over us.

Fun Fact: The word Aryan comes directly from Iran.

Racial Superemacy & the Islamic Conspiracy to take over the world...or destroy it. This is literally the case in major sects of Islam (12th Imam followers primarily) who interpret both The Qu'ran & Hadith's to mean just what I said.

The Ressurection according to these type of people...can only happen, when all life is dead.

This is highly indicative of the High-Elves plot to destroy Mundus. I have a difficult time finding any other nihilistic plot to destroy the world w/ the belief of transcendence.

It's also relevant to our time, since The Thalmor (current Muslim Brotherhood?) only just arrived in the most recent release TES V: Skyrim.
Current themes of Anti-Christian rhetoric (you've heard it & even spread it) that really looks like Anti-Talos propaganda in the game.

This part of the post has been removed for violating forum rules.

There was real-life King, whom the races of men followed anywhere & everywhere & saw as a liberator.

He is.....
Pelinal Whitestrake = Megas Alexandros. He went on a crusade to defeat the enemies of Zeus. He conquered the Sumerian/Babylonians just about everyone, everywhere he went.

Pale in All, The White's Drake (Dragon)
(Greeks, Slavs & Germans were all WHITE. But of course, Ideology creates Race through exclusionary breeding)

Compare
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morihaus
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pelinal_Whitestrake

Morihaus was, apparently, a winged man bull.

to the Wikipedia article on Alexander The Great

Here are a few excerpts from the Wikipedia page:

According to Josephus, Alexander was shown the Book of Daniel's prophecy, presumably chapter 8, which described a mighty Greek King who would conquer the Persian Empire. He spared Jerusalem and pushed south into Egypt.

Alexander advanced on Egypt in later 332 BC, where he was regarded as a liberator. He was pronounced the new "master of the Universe" and son of the deity of Amun at the Oracle of Siwa Oasis in the Libyan desert. Henceforth, Alexander often referred to Zeus-Ammon as his true father, and subsequent currency depicted him adorned with rams horn as a symbol of his divinity

The figure of Dhul-Qarnayn (literally "the Two-Horned One") mentioned in the Quran is believed by some scholars to represent Alexander, due to parallels with the Alexander Romance.


There are legends that actual gods ruled on this Earth...I think that's who the Ayleid were.
Ayleid doesn't mean Wild Elves. You have to re-interpret & understand the general sentiment & find its equivolent. It means Stranger or Alien to men...which they certainly were.

For freak sake! Look at Ayleid ruins & Soul Gems....or even the Weyleid Stones

Soul Gems = BATTERIES! So it's pretty ridiculous when you charge your "sword" or "bow" enchantment up again.

In the movie ALEXANDER, Philip of Macedon (Alex's father) talks about a war with The Gods vs Titans & how The Greeks are for The Olympians & against The Titans.

Interesting movie...just watch-out for the boucning boobs & homosexuality. They come out of nowhere.


St. Alessia/Alessian Order = Elysia or Order of Elysium. It existed before Alexander & was involved in some covert operations against Babylon. This group has much in common with The Psijic Order & could be conpared to The FreeMason Fraternity in ancient & classical times.
Alessia is Athena, Goddess of Wisdom.

The Alessian Empire (Alexanders broken Empire) existed in a bunch of pieces. Ptolemaic, Selucid, etc ...until Reman (like Romulus & Remus?) took over.

Note: The Selucids were Greek & Babylonian & tried to "Hellenize" Israel & other semitic tribes & kingdoms. This could be seen as the Nord & Dwemer alliance & the final battle at Red Mountain.


Chimer/Dunmer = The Semitic Tribes & Kingdoms. I'm not only refering to The Hebrew.

4 points that deal with Semites in general. I can't find anyone else who matches up with the Dunmer this much....but of course...there are still many questions unanswered about The Tribunal which I need to look into.

1. Biblical Exodus & Babylonian Captivity/Liberation ( matches very closely with the Velothian Exodus. It's actually amazing that anybody was set free.

Pharoah was forced by plagues & conspiracy & King Nebuchenezer was influenced by seduction & conspiracy...seriously...why set captives free? Only unless they're more trouble than they're worth. Those damn Jews. How do they keep getting into & out of messes like that? LOL!
Veloth (Veloth = Moses? Trinimac = Egyptians)

2. The Hebrews, after much war, made allies with many strange folk in the area...but only because of common enemies...such as Assyria & Babylon which had conquered Egypt.

3. Diasporia literally resulted in many Semitic Tribes going NORTH into the Caucasian Mountains.
This is why so many Jews/Semites ended up in Russia, Poland, & Germany & explains why the Dunmer are now in Skyrim...

4. Themed Strongly Mesopotamian. I'm sorry, but that excludes everyone else but the Semitic tribes & kingdoms


Dwemer/Deep Elves = I keep thinking Sumerian...but the Ayleid & Aldmer take that place.

Someone suggested Greeks...but it might be more relevant to say The Selucid Empire which was composed of Hellenized Mesopotamia....which included Babylon, which the Maccebes went to war with.

I'm still fuzzy on this one. It's possible that the Dwemer were once part of the Ayleid heirarchy...which could generally be understood as the combination of Akkad/Sumer/Babyl


Bosmer = I haven't studied that deeply into any of the southern Asian Civilizations very deeply....but it's very possible that looking at the enviroment, which is Coastal & Forest with Feral Elves (people with funny eyes ...I'd say west of India is my best guess.. Vietnamese, Burmese, etc.


Argonian = Swamp People? I have no idea. Keep Ancient America out of this.
I'm not certain on this...but either they're the same as the Bosmer but more tribal or they're Western Polynesians. That's as far as I'll go.


Kajhiit = Assyrians. I'm almost 100% possitive. They practically worshiped Lions.
..somewhere close to Babylon/Persia.


Tscesci = Chinese? Strong Serpent/Dragon Culture.


I'm not gonna get into the other races. I'm tired & I wanna do something else other than TES.


TES Online there is the Eagle, Lion, & Dragon.


The Eagle/Falcon/Hawk = Egypt, Babylon, & Rome.

Somebody mentioned the Etruscans & Towers. The Eagle was used as a Roman Standard. If Etrusca means Tower, then Rome must be New-Babylon....since both Babylonian & Roman Empires were cultural Dopplegangers & pretty much stole everything from everyone.
I'm not exagerating.

Greeks used The Owl & Eagle to represent Athena & Zeus...but I'll leave that alone since I don't know when the Greeks started associating Zeus with the Eagle...or if they were somehow corrupted by the Persians.

The Norse/Germanic did not use any bird to my knowledge, except The Crow/Raven or Sea-gul. They typically used great beasts to represent their culture. Boar, Bear, Wolf, Elk, Dragon (that they've slain).


The Lion = Assyrian & some Babylonian are built around the concept of The Lion.

It only makes sense, considering the Aldmeri Dominion races. Cat-Folk & Supremicists.


The Dragon/Serpent = In some cases, the Babylonian Gods ruled over dragons & used them as servants.

The Norse/Germanic cultures/religions are built around the slaying of Dragons...one of the most famous dragons in Nordic Lore is Jormangander, The World Serpent.

Jormangander is the beast brother of Fenrir, The Wolf Beast who's jaws open as wide as the sky & who's hunger threatens to devour the world.

Alduin is the hybrid between the two.


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:22 pm 
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TheIndividual wrote:
Chimer/Dunmer = The Semitic Tribes & Kingdoms. I'm not only refering to The Hebrew.

4 points that deal with Semites in general. I can't find anyone else who matches up with the Dunmer this much....but of course...there are still many questions unanswered about The Tribunal which I need to look into.

1. Biblical Exodus & Babylonian Captivity/Liberation ( matches very closely with the Velothian Exodus. It's actually amazing that anybody was set free.

Pharoah was forced by plagues & conspiracy & King Nebuchenezer was influenced by seduction & conspiracy...seriously...why set captives free? Only unless they're more trouble than they're worth. Those damn Jews. How do they keep getting into & out of messes like that? LOL!
Veloth (Veloth = Moses? Trinimac = Egyptians)

2. The Hebrews, after much war, made allies with many strange folk in the area...but only because of common enemies...such as Assyria & Babylon which had conquered Egypt.

3. Diasporia literally resulted in many Semitic Tribes going NORTH into the Caucasian Mountains.
This is why so many Jews/Semites ended up in Russia, Poland, & Germany & explains why the Dunmer are now in Skyrim...

4. Themed Strongly Mesopotamian. I'm sorry, but that excludes everyone else but the Semitic tribes & kingdoms



1.
The Chimer weren't in any sort of bondage or slavery. They were free people, if anything they were "too much free" and light eared.
They wanted to move out of their homeland, but trinmac did not want this.
This is exactly opposite of what happened to the jews.
2.
Herbrews were strongly against idol worship, they are very rule based. Dunmer worship deadras, aren't rule based, they are tribal, clanish (casteist).
They worship exactly the same god as other Abhrahamics(ie. Aedra worshippers). Clearly Dunmers cannot be among them since they worship Deaedra.
3.
Agreed with you here, but there are many other people in this world who have had some sort of diasporia.
4.
Disagree, Dewemer are more mesopotamian than dunmer. See an image of dewemer, looks EXACTLY like mesopotamian dude.
I think its Indus Valley architecture. If you search for Indus Valley Harrapa Gateway , and compare it with Balmora you'd be surprised by what you see.


The customs of Dunmer more represent the dharmic /eastern faiths, cremation, ancestor worship, clan(caste) based society etc.
Redoran can easily be compared to kshatriya who value sword and courage
Tellevani to the brahmins
Hallalu/Dres to the vaisha
and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Let's remember to treat each other with respect when posting responses in this thread, or any other on UESP. Also, discussion of religion is not allowed on the forums and please do not ridicule those who are religious. And lastly, please hide long posts under spoiler or hide tags, so it is easier for your fellow users to load on their screens & read.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:26 pm 
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I think I posted on here earlier, but I just wanted to point out something I thought was neat, and I didn't see anyone else post about it - Redguards have a lot of Celtic (in particular, Welsh) names. I don't think they have anything else in common with Celtic culture otherwise, but:

Morrowind: Gwen, Ena, Ian,

Oblivion: Owyn, Branwen, Roderick, Rhiannon, Isolde, Kiara, Rona*, Maelona

Skyrim: Ennis, Anwen, Braith, Seren

There might also be a few I glazed over, though.

*Rona can be derived from Scottish name "Rhona," which means "rough Island" in Gaelic. Rona can also be an unrelated Hebrew name, but I figured I'd put it on this list.

Most of the names are Welsh, with a few Irish names (and, well, Rona which might be Scottish); I thought it was sort of neat, since it's not like it's exactly a "one off" kind of name. I think it's sort of neat, since Welsh names do pop up in a few of the other races (off the top of my head - Altmer have Eilonwy and Elenwen, there is a Nord named Morwen), but they seem to be a lot less frequent in comparison to the Redguards.

Sort of interesting, though... But I might think that since I'm part Welsh. |D


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:16 am 
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OblivionDuruza wrote:
  • The Nords are definitely influenced by and modelled upon the ancient Norse cultures of Scandinavia, the burial crypts ring of Ancient Egypt though, as it's my understanding the Norse cremated their dead

The burial culture probably comes mostly from the Celts, given their barrows and underground crypts have a lot of swirls, and overgrowth that seems almost intentional.
Their culture seems fairly reminiscent of a blend of Norse and Celtic, focusing primarily on Norse.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:13 am 
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This has been interesting and I can't argue with many of the parallels others have pointed out.

I think I differ from most others when it comes to the Orcs though. To me the Orcs seem to be Skyrim's version of the Polish. A tough people that are few in number and surrounded by enemies who look down on them and make them the target of jokes and ridicule. Their low numbers make it a necessity that their warriors be well protected and very skilled and thus feared. Otherwise they would get over run by sheer numbers alone.

Another aspect is the lack of any future for a young warrior at home in such a system as the Orcs live under. When stuck in a single village with no prospects of bettering yourself, that doesn't entail having to fight and kill the Chief, or any chance at adventure. Then add in the fact that most tribes will not co operate at all due to the Chiefs not wanting to give up any advantage to another Chief. The young are always going to look else where for it. So they leave and end up as mercenaries, bandits, or joining the Legion. That sounds just like what is referred to as the Wild Geese of Ireland. During the late middle ages up to about the last 150 years or so you could find the Irish in every army in the world. No opportunity at home forced them to seek it elsewhere.

I also see a parallel with the Gurkha's of Nepal that served with the British army. Prized and highly respected warriors who are eagerly sought out to join the Imperial Legions ranks.

The cultural part of the Orcs is hard to find parallels for. They are very much like most tribes from early Europe. The twist is the chief being the only one with wives. I can not find any culture that practiced anything like this. More than one wife was common. But all the women belonging to one man was not. I think this is where the fantasy aspect comes into play. Any such system would soon fail or be destroyed. Either by the fact of genetics and interbreeding, or out of sheer frustration and envy on the part of the males without any wives or any way to get one. Get a randy man with no prospects of finding a woman. Then get him drunk. Your going to end up with a fight and probably the one with all the women is going to be the target of all the men in the tribe.

So we end up with a people like the Poles with a military reputation and tradition like the Gurkha's, and a wanderlust of the Irish. All set in a Tribal culture with some fantasy leanings tossed in. What a mix!


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:52 pm 
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Khali wrote:
I think I differ from most others when it comes to the Orcs though. To me the Orcs seem to be Skyrim's version of the Polish. A tough people that are few in number and surrounded by enemies who look down on them and make them the target of jokes and ridicule. Their low numbers make it a necessity that their warriors be well protected and very skilled and thus feared. Otherwise they would get over run by sheer numbers alone.

I also see a parallel with the Gurkha's of Nepal that served with the British army. Prized and highly respected warriors who are eagerly sought out to join the Imperial Legions ranks.


I don't quite buy the polish parallel. Most peoples can be said to be tough, and certainly the polish aren't noticable tougher than some other europeans. All European countries tend look down on eachother, and poland isn't in any unique situation. Being surrounded by powerful enemies is something which applies to everyone but Spain, Britian and Russia. And I wouldn't say that poles had that low numbers in comparison to their neighbors (like say, Sweden did), nor can they, with the exception of their cavalry (in which the orcs do not excel), be said to be exceptionally skillfull or protected. In fact, if I had to choose between a focus on quantity or quality, I'd say poland chose the former.

I wouldn't draw the parallel to the gurkhas, but rather to the germanic tribes of the classical era. It seems a more fitting parallel given that the cyrodiilic empire is mostly based on the roman one. Germanic civilization was less developed than roman at the time, but germanic warriors were feared and they served frequently in the roman legions. Combat to germans wasn't much about discipline and organisation, but rather heroic one-on-one combat. Seems more orc to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:07 am 
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Heres another real life link.

Sentinel are the people of Sentinel island which is near India. They are very aggressive and war like. I think the sentinel (red-guard) are in part I believe inspired from these people.

These are ancient islands which bear people from the very first wave that migrated out of afrika.


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:33 am 
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The argument that you can draw direct parallels between real life cultures and TES cultures tends to fall apart under any sort of scrutiny that extends beyond a mere glance. For instance, you can't simply say any one race is the Japanese analogue because those aesthetics and histories play into at least three or four distinct races.

Orcs in Morrowind wear Samurai armor so clearly they're the ones with Japanese influence, right?

Except the Tsaesci brought Katanas to Tamriel so clearly they're the ones with Japanese influence right?

Except the Redoran in Morrowind have a code of values that seems to be based on Bushido, so clearly THEY'RE the Japanese, right?

Except some of the books on swordsmanship from Yokuda (which itself sounds like a Japanese word) are almost word for word transcriptions of actual real world Samurai texts.

And that's just ONE real world culture that gets applied to several, several races.


This topic is a dead horse. It's a topic that gets brought up over and over again year after year. Very little new or insightful ever comes from it. It's one of the most cliche' topics of all, along with "how long does x race live?" and "is there good and evil in TES?" I'd like to be able to sit you down and explain to you why these are bad or uninteresting questions, but I feel like I would be incapable of getting through to most of you. And that's too bad. There's lots of really interesting and fun concepts in TES that are lurking under the surface, but there sure is a lot of distracting, smelly trash floating on the surface.

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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:21 am 
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Nobody's forcing you to read this thread, Pilaf. And also, no-one is saying that this and this TES race is a _direct parallell_ to real-world cultures, what people are doing are discussing _influence_ from real-world cultures on the TES races.


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:26 am 
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The New Number Two
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Pilaf The Defiler wrote:


This topic is a dead horse. It's a topic that gets brought up over and over again year after year.



hmmm.. previous threads in this vein may have even been locked quite quickly due to references to real life race and religion and a tendency to run aground (comparing real life races to pretend ones rarely results in happy readers, especially if you live in Warsaw and don't particularly like orcs lol)

Spoiler:
i think this sort of topic might work if we discussed the influences from the sci fi and fantasy heritage which may have influenced TES lore.

For instance, the Altmer and Summerset Isle to me are similar in a lot of ways to the Melniboneans, from Michael Moorcock's Elric books. I think the TES developers were/are great fans of that writer. Sheogorath and certain other Daedra ring little Moorcock bells with me too.. though maybe Arioch is such a great character it's hard not to draw comparisons with a lot of universes where godlike beings routinely mess around with mortals' lives

I think awareness of influences can truly deepen ones appreciation of a game's canon, whether it's seeing trends in popular culture manifesting in a game, or how existing ideas have evolved in the current generation. And of course highlighting the areas of true originality in a game.. the Dwemer for example, i haven't seen anything like them (yet) in the material i have seen/read/played and really enjoy them for that


anyway, just a suggestion


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 Post subject: Re: Skyrim races in real life
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:38 am 
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Journeyman
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Orks with the smithing and code plus heavy armor remind me of english or frankish knights albeit there code is a little different since the knights didnt follow Macaloth or however you spell it


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