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Aedra or Daedra?
Aedra 60%  60%  [ 36 ]
Daedra 40%  40%  [ 24 ]
Total votes : 60
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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:36 pm 
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You know Bread, I'm starting to think you don't like daedra. :P

Still it would be wrong to treat all daedra the same way or assume that they only ever have evil intentions. It would also be foolish to think that all Aedra are the same and that none of them would ever do bad things. They're more complex than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:41 pm 
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No I like the Daedra, well half of them, I'm just saying if I lived in Tamriel I would not worship them. Good thing I don't live in Tamriel. And I know all Daedra aren't the same, but each has their own agenda that they follow.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:42 pm 
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I would follow sheogorath, partly because life would forever be interesting^_^
Then again I waver between aedra and deadra, mainly because I distrust both, only a few have my respect. If I was to be a simple aedra worshiper, I have to choose Kynareth, Mara, and somewhat Akatosh.
As for deadra, I tend to avoid the deceitful and evil nature. So that mainly leaves me with an easy choice, so I would either pick sheogorath, Azura, Nocturnal, or Meridia. I would somewhat follow Jyggalag if I was an enemy to the rest, plus his objective is the most clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:24 am 
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Talos is for sure Aedra, sure he didn't take part in creation of the world, but the God's elevated him to their status so he's equal to them, hence the Nine Divines.

Hell he might be Shor anyway so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's Aedric.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:57 am 
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Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
Talos is for sure Aedra, sure he didn't take part in creation of the world, but the God's elevated him to their status so he's equal to them, hence the Nine Divines.

Hell he might be Shor anyway so we'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's Aedric.

1. Talos is not an Aedra. Taking part in Creation is what makes you an Aedra. Aedra does not mean good god.
2. The gods did not make Talos a god and I doubt they can. Not without outside help.
3. Shor is not an Aedra. Lorkhain is the in between.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:00 pm 
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1. Shor is Lorkhan, just a better sounding name.
2. Aedra could elevate Tiber to godhood, they're Gods.
3. He may not be Aedra, but he is a divine.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:04 pm 
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1. I know that; that was the point I was making. Shor is Lorkhain. Lorkhain is the in between. I don't know if you thought you were educating me, but you weren't.
2.The gods did not elevate Tiber Septim. He elevated himself.
3.We are talking about Aedra, so just being a Divine isn't good enough. That also means no Arkay.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:12 pm 
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I wasn't trying to educate you, I'm not in the Union, nor do I have the proper degree.

But how is it Tiber elevates himself? The dragon souls he captured?

And Talos is more divine then other gods, such as the Tribunal. Hell maybe it's a time travel thing, once he rose to Godhood, he ceased to be man, and Talos became existent since creation, wasn't that theory argued.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Nah, brah, Talos is Divine, but he ain't no Aedra, you fake Union-er. Anyway, Talos became Divine through mantling Lorkhan. Because he is Lorkhan.

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Last edited by Br3admax on Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Talos became a god because he wanted to. He learned the secret sigil of Royalty which is CHIM and took it for himself. He occupied the space Shezarr left in the Cyrodiilic pantheon.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:19 pm 
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Bread - the dude's name is Lorkhan, no "i" in it.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:25 pm 
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No offense, but I can't handle that Kirkbride stuff, it's too overly complicated just for the sake of it, and messed up. Sides he doesn't even work there anymore.

And if he's right then it means Vivec is still a god, and personally I cant have that.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:14 pm 
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CBR JGWRR wrote:
Bread - the dude's name is Lorkhan, no "i" in it.

:)

Spelling is for chumps.

Any CHIM is canon. Why is that not obvious?

Sorry abou the PM, CBR. Accident.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:44 pm 
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I've yet to see any one explain it in game, or in a book. I know it's considered Lore knowledge, but if not then how can we kill any members of the Tribunal and how can the Thalmor threaten Talos.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Most of Kirkbride's stuff is referenced in game. Even if some of it got cut. Pilaf's compiled a list of stuff that's in game that Kirkbride came up with...

Br3admax wrote:
Spelling is for chumps.

Any CHIM is canon. Why is that not obvious?

Sorry abou the PM, CBR. Accident.


CHIM is one of the things that is definitely canon, Heimskr in Whiterun references it about Talos for a start...


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
how can the Thalmor threaten Talos.

They're just force nords not to worship him, they're not threatening him in any real way, that's like thinking shaking your fist at the sky is like punching god in the tummy and making him cry, it makes no difference.

You could argue that a god ceases to have any power when no one worships/believes in it, though that may not work the same way on Nirn, as their gods seem to wield more "real" power, than gods do here on earth. Who knows, maybe the whole curing disease thing is meant as a metaphor for the serenity one feels when praying to a god (if that is how praying works, I wouldn't know)

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Hejerrick wrote:
Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
how can the Thalmor threaten Talos.

They're just force nords not to worship him, they're not threatening him in any real way, that's like thinking shaking your fist at the sky is like punching god in the tummy and making him cry, it makes no difference.


Oh they can and are. Removing Talos is step one on the road to breaking Mundus, and achieving their desire of not having to live in the prison of Mundus inflicted on them by Lorkhan the trickster, mantled by Talos.

See: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Spirit_of ... of_Mortals


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Yep 'cause Nords always just do what they are told and there is a very small number of Talos worshipers.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:34 pm 
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Well, that's the plan. I never said whether it would work or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Da_BossMaN69 wrote:
No offense, but I can't handle that Kirkbride stuff, it's too overly complicated just for the sake of it, and messed up. Sides he doesn't even work there anymore.

And if he's right then it means Vivec is still a god, and personally I cant have that.


So you don't like 75% of the foundational post-Daggerfall lore because it requires thinking?

Any why couldn't Vivec still be a god? Because he's dead? Doesn't stop the rest of them does it?

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:05 am 
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3.We are talking about Aedra, so just being a Divine isn't good enough. That also means no Arkay.


I think that's taking it a little too far. Unlike Talos, Arkay is still quite arguably an Aedra. In Morrowind, members of the Imperial Cult described the Nine Divines as the worship of the eight Aedra: Akatosh, Dibella, Zenithar, Mara, Stendarr, Kynareth, Julianos, Arkay, and the once mortal god Talos. Plus, Arkay is one of the planets within the Mundus, which implies he was there during creation, unless I got my facts wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:07 am 
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You did because Arkay was once a mortal. If anyone was made a god it was him. Long after creation was finished.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:36 am 
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According to one book. That's hardly credible grounds. And part of the beauty of TES is that there are never cut and dry answers. There's always contradictions. What is true is for the reader to interpret. However, supporting my opinion, that Arkay is a Aedra, are the planets orbiting Nirn. Which formed during creation and which Arkay is a member of. Or you could take a look on the wiki, which has Arkay classified as an Aedra.


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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:37 am 
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The planets did not form during creation. Also since the believers make the religion, the people who all believe Arkay was mortal, are right. That's just how ES works.

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 Post subject: Re: Aedra vs Daedra
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:00 am 
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But by that logic, those who believe he was an Aedra are also right. So again, you can't just declare he was mortal.


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