OblivionDuruza wrote:
@Leckan, honest question: are you interested in the truth no matter its character, or a truth that sees the Altmer are proven to be vicious hell-spawn? Just curious, because of the way you keep saying "Excellent points" and "Well said" when arguments are levied against a potential universe in which the Altmer are not malicious evil-doers. I just get the feeling that you
want them to be the 'bad guys', and so interpret everything as if it substantiates that proposition.
For example: You compare an individual's age to that of a society, and then claim that it is hypocrisy when a person's views on the two differ (treating them as if they are the same thing, which they are demonstrably not). Secondly, you choose to interpret "war" as exclusively inter-Mer-Man, when clearly war includes the many wars fought between the Men races themselves, between Men and Beasts, and between Men of the same race, of which there are
many documented instances. Finally, I feel that you entirely misrepresent the Thalmor, in claiming things like "Thalmor take credit for Molag Bal's [Mehrunes Dagon's?] defeat," when the only evidence I've seen ("We're the ruling body of the Aldmeri Dominion.
Saviors of Mer." - Ondolemar, emphasis mine) suggests that they claim to have defeated the Daedra on Summerset (supplying evidence to support your claim would help in this regard) and that the Thalmor somehow instigated the fall of Baar Dua (there is no solid lore that evidences such a claim).
Specifically, this assertion troubles me greatly:
Quote:
It took 200 years, but the unification of Tamriel has been split apart and the empire is damn-near crippled while the Thalmor have been bolstering their forces. And for what? The empire was a happy, prosperous place for about a thousand years, why destroy it? Because the Thalmor believe they are superior.
Why? Because it ignores such groups as the Dunmer (Houses Indoril, Telvanni, Redoran, Dres and Dagoth, as well as the Tribunal Temple and the Camonna Tong), the Khajiit (primarily the Renrijra Krin, but largely the Northern Khajiit of the nation of Pa'alatiin), the Argonians (led by the Hist), the Nords of the Old Holds (Winter Hold, Eastmarch, The Rift and The Pale), the Redguards (specifically the Crowns), the Bosmer (namely the many rebels who supported and were supported by the First Dominion, and later by the Thalmor), and the Altmer themselves. The Empire was certainly good for many groups and peoples on Tamriel, but to pretend that it was an exclusively good entity is either voluntary ignorance or a misreading of the many signs presented in the games (prior to Skyrim). All of those factions and signs provide reason to end the Imperials' reign over the other races of Tamriel. Why must the reason be, as you claim, that "the Thalmor believe they are superior," when there are so many other possible motivations and interpretations, equally supported by lore, if not moreso? You seem to forget, or ignore, the fact that the unification of Tamriel involved many bitter wars, and the subjugation of many races. Tiber used the Numidium to conquer the Altmer (against their will, obviously), and fought
wars against the races of most provinces, including against the other Men races.[/color]
Yes, I am interested in the truth.
Now while not all Altmer are the Thalmor like not all Germans were Nazis, I will admit that I sometimes lack a clear distinction in my writings. It's sometimes hard to since the Thalmor follow the beliefs of the old Aldmeri Dominion whom felt that humans were lesser beings, and then the Ayleids whom were precursers to the Aldmeri Dominion and the Thalmor and also had the same innate sense of superiority over humans and subjugated them. I could also count the Falmer whom the Altmer insist branched from them and tried to lead a genocide against the Nords.
So to summarize, the Aldmer and their descendents have been blood enemies of humanity since the merethic era. The Falmer, the Ayleids, the Aldmeri Dominion, and now the Thalmor and their resurrection of the Aldmeri Dominion.
The Thalmor also haven't been very honest, the last 200 years they have been sneaky, cunning, and deceitful. They have lost credibility to me, so when they tell the Khajiit that it was them whom restored the moons I do not believe them, like the farmer didn't believe the boy who liked to cry wolf.
It's true, I did only use the wars between men and mer as an example. However, I was trying to note the hypocrisy in that it was the mer that instigated the wars between them and man. Queen Ayrenn said that men sought war and blood when in fact mer too have blood and their share of atrocities on their hands as well, further showing the hypocrisy of her statement. She also states that it's the mer's divine right to rule, and to rule over man, and that they are stupid and short-lived.
Now when I first entered the world of Elder Scrolls, I was used to elves being typically benevolent, artisans, writers, poets, philosophers, and craftsmen, whom were also majestic and extremely long-lived. How shocked and taken back was I when the Elder Scrolls, to me, introduced the same elves that I'm familiar with, in the form of the "Altmer," and took those virtues to logical extremes where they possess an aristocratic mentality and inflated ego, seeing themselves as next to the gods while man were next to beasts.
I recall that before the Tiber Wars that there were united warring factions trying to seize control of Tamriel, and even before them there were others. Tiber stepped in a forced them into submission and united all of Tamriel, albeit through equal force. Also, nothing's perfect. There will always be conflicts that don't last long, as well as isolated actions of some individuals, but in the relative sense the Empire was peaceful compared to what it was. It forced open borders, allowed free trade, as well as helped to quell a lot of racial tensions.
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