UESP Forums

great PR work, spin doctoring and propaganda, but have you ever actually tried speaking to any of the patrols of "enforcers" wandering Skyrim? they're pretty blunt and clear on their motives and motivations. if there's still ever any doubt, I suggest you go and speak directly with a certain Thalmor "adviser" (spy) at the College of Winterhold. alternatively, you could take the reverse route and speak directly with the "adviser" (spy) first, and then speak to any of the wandering Thalmor patrols for direct confirmation of their motives and motivations. they are supremacists, not secessionists. they don't seek to break away from man. they seek to enslave them. men are considered inferior, fit and suitable only to serve their mer masters and overlords. thanks in advance for the opportunity to address and clear up this minor miscalculation, misconception and misunderstanding.



sweetroll?

How 'bout that MK-inspired Thalmor destruction of man and Talos, and preventing man from rising again, Durza?

Perhaps exaggerated, but I too believe it's factual. I must say that it doesn't sway from what we know of the Altmer and their fiendish machinations during the 4th era. They are aristocratic nightmares whose attitudes and philosophies only further fuel tensions and hostilities between them and the other races.

If we assume this Aldmeri Dominion is a continuation of the ideals of the Old Dominion, then we can look back in time to a statement from a former Queen to get a good picture of the official Elven goals:





"I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims.

The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake.

Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

Stand with us." Areynn, Queen of the Aldmeri Dominion of the Second Era

^ A lot can change in 1000 years, but I suspect the officially released documents about the Thalmor's intentions for Man remain the same, regardless of their behind the scenes beliefs.

Then there's Schick's comment:

"The third alliance - the Aldmeri Dominion - is led by Queen Areynn of the High Elves ....

... Areynn has seen the rot at the heart of Tamriel, and she believes it's time for the Elves to resume their responsibility to rule. To take control of the White Gold Tower (that they built in the first place) and to get rid of the bloody and warmongering Humans, who have - in Empire after Empire - been drenching the continent in oceans of blood. It's time for the Elves to go in, kick the Humans out and put things to right."

^ Again, that's the public goal of the Dominion.

Well said.

Ayrenn is hypocritical too, since as just a 28 year old when she was coronated, she declared humans are too young and short-lived race to rule. If that is so, then surely a 128 year old Alter would had been better suited to rule than herself, or is she automatically fit to rule not because of her age but because of her race?

There's also a note in the Skyrim game of the Thalmor talking about how they want the civil war in Skyrim to weaken the empire. The comments by the Thalmor agents you come across also thinly veil their intentions and beliefs.

And what does Ayrenn mean when she says "...get rid of the bloody and warmongering Humans, who have - in Empire after Empire - been drenching the continent in oceans of blood."? The humans first rebelled against the genocidal Falmer, then rebelled tyrannical dragon god-kings, then rebelled against their Ayleid slavers. Two of those wars have been instigated by elven views of supremacy, yet she omits that.

Hypocrisy at its finest. It's like the Elves believing Phynaster and Syrabane were mortals, but also calling the Divines. Arkay in some cases, too. Yet their main justification for censoring Talos worship is "a mortal cannot become a god."

I don't think that anyone said that a mortal can't become a god. I'm pretty sure that they just say that "It's immoral to worship a man," not that a mortal can't become a god.

Semantics. Phynaster was a "man", too. Elves call their adult males that sometimes.

I really don't think they mean man as in mortal. Otherwise they would have used that. Also, considering that most of their gods, if not all, were in fact mortal before ascending to Aetherius, I'm almost positive that they don't mean mortal.

Then their clear bias or even downright racism isn't even thinly veiled. They're not even trying to hide it.

Excellent points. They may have issues with Talos being considered an Aedra for various reasons, but their logic is flawed and hypocritical as you pointed out. Another issue may be that they wanted Talos worship banned to divide the empire.

The Thalmor have been manipulating events ever since the start of the 4th era:

1. The empire is weakened after the oblivion crisis, Thalmor take credit for Molag Bal's defeat.
2. Black Marsh pulls out from the empire.
3. Morrowind suffers cataclysmic natural disasters which leave the Dunmer nation weakened.
4. Thalmor may have motivated Argonians to invade Morrowind.
5. Valenwood retracts from the empire and join the Thalmor.
6. Thalmor lie to the Khajiit and Elsweyr join the Thalmor.
7. The empire is forced to concede large sections of Hammerfell to the Thalmor, causing Hammerfell to split from the empire.
8. Thalmor gets the empire to ban Talos worship, causing a civil war in Skyrim and possible departure from the empire.

It took 200 years, but the unification of Tamriel has been split apart and the empire is damn-near crippled while the Thalmor have been bolstering their forces. And for what? The empire was a happy, prosperous place for about a thousand years, why destroy it? Because the Thalmor believe they are superior.

Were does it say they lied? I am not saying they didn't, but it is still uncertain. It is possible they have done something.

If you really believe that the Thalmor brought back Masser and Secunda then all the power to you, my friend.

As long as we get to keep killing them I don't care how many appearances they make. That said, its hard to be believe even a magically inclined race could cause two moons to just reappear, but I'm with Br3ad on this, if you you want to believe that then whatever.

Actually... this is a simple Burden of Proof exercise. You don't have to prove the Thalmor didn't restore the moons. If someone claims they can restore moons, they'd better damn well be able to back that up.

Read again.... I never said such thing.



I'll give you quite right, but because we don't know what the Thalmor said to the khajiit how they restored the moons, we also don't no what their 'proof' is. So we can't say based of the information we have, if their claims are false or not.

I'm under no obligation to believe the Thalmor currently possesses this type of power, though. If they can simply wave their hands and manipulate objects in the Void, they could obliterate a continent or a country like Cyrodiil if they wanted. Clearly they could not and had to resort to conventional warfare, so either their powers over the physical universe are very specific or nonexistent.

Whether or not they'd like to be able to wield this power is open to interpretation. They take credit for things they clearly didn't do, like stopping the Daedra. We saw Martin seal the barrier with our own eyes, those of us who played Oblivion. We know the truth.

That certainly does mar the credibility of their other claims.

The only character we've met so far that can control astronomical objects however is Vivec, and if the altmer have a Vivec-like elf on their side, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to believe that they could effect the moons and at the same time still resort to traditional warfare.

If they had a Vivec-like elf on their side, they shouldn't have lost the Great War.

That...

It is true that Martin stopped the invasion, but it is not entirely fault the Thalmor took some credit. Well, their claims that they stopped the invasion are false in the absolute sense, but such opportunity to seize some power on the Isles would have done every political party (men or mer). The slaughterings that followed are of course of some very insane and yet intelligent leader/party.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War
"Their efforts almost certainly saved Summerset Isle from being overrun."

From the same source it is said that the Thalmor had foreknowledge about the return of the moons. Even if they didn't return them by their unknown 'Dawn Magicks', they certaintly knew more about it than the rest of Tamriel.

I need to say I also believe the Thalmor didn't restore the moons by themself, but I'm pointing out that some people are jumping on conclusions were no conclusions should be made.

Irrelevant really. Everywhere in Tamriel went through the same - Martins Sacrifice made the war go from merely delaying the inevitable daedric victory to a winnable battle at immense cost.