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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:57 pm 
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Looks like a rocky person to me

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:58 pm 
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She doesn't look very Italian to me...

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Surprisingly humanoid looking

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:07 pm 
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Minor Edits wrote:
She doesn't look very Italian to me...

+10 Speechcraft

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Is there by chance any more info, or merely a screenshot?

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:13 pm 
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I'm not even sure what the quest name is at the moment. Just saw that and felt the need to share.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:18 pm 
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It is times like this that Time Travel would be a blessing.. go 3 years forward, copy all the data from our future wiki selves, and return in victory.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:47 am 
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I know it's a quest giver, and it claims to be "one of the Y'ffre". I know this because a very angry lore fan I know was ranting about it and how the ESO devs are hacks or something, but personally I'm kind of stoked about the implications here. It redefines what we knew about Earthbones and Y'ffre. In fact there's a lot of new and interesting lore on the Green Pact in ESO. There's the whole concept of the Handfast between the Silvenar and the Green Lady, and there's the Hollow Man and all sorts of new demigods in Valenwood. Y'ffre being a collective rather than a single personality is definitely possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:25 am 
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I find it deliciously ironic that the underhanded House Hlaalu renounced the slave trade while the honorable House Redoran fought to see it preserved. http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hlaalu_Helseth


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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:46 am 
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I've never seen that anywhere. It was added in 2008 by the user Benould, and no one has provided a source since. I haven't looked too closely, but one is not readily apparent. Benould was a good editor, generally, but it's possible he was just improperly inferring facts from the Current Events section of 3rd Edition Pocket Guide: Morrowind.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:20 am 
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The abolition of slavery is mostly mentioned in PGE 3 and Oblivion rumors. I think it's briefly mentioned in the Keyes novels, but not more than a passing line.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:20 pm 
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Minor Edits wrote:
I've never seen that anywhere. It was added in 2008 by the user Benould, and no one has provided a source since. I haven't looked too closely, but one is not readily apparent. Benould was a good editor, generally, but it's possible he was just improperly inferring facts from the Current Events section of 3rd Edition Pocket Guide: Morrowind.

It's from an Oblivion rumour I think. We really ought to document the generic dialogue somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:05 am 
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You're right in part. "They say that slavery has been abolished in Morrowind. House Dres and Hlaalu have renounced the slave trade, and freed the beastfolk from servitude." But there's still a ton of conjecture involved in that Hlaalu paragraph, including the proposition that Redoran fought to preserve the slave trade. PGE3 said that Redoran was waning, but nothing I can find suggests this decline was because of a position they held on slavery. Other Oblivion rumors suggest they were coming under attack from the Nords and their Orc mercenaries, which is one of several perfectly valid explanations for the decline PGE3 attributes to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:40 pm 
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I've never heard or read anything official about Redoran opposing the slavery ban. PGE 3 does mention a decline, but they clearly recovered from that. Perhaps it's their discipline that put them in the best position to lead the Dunmer people through Red Year.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:55 am 
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MidbossVyers wrote:
I find it deliciously ironic that the underhanded House Hlaalu renounced the slave trade while the honorable House Redoran fought to see it preserved. http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hlaalu_Helseth
I'm not sure I quite understand what is so ironic about a House who sees itself as Morrowind's shield standing in defence of the traditional practices of the Dunmer, while a House who identifies freedom and fairness as its central tenants (and leads the abolition movement that is the Twin Lamps) stands opposed to slavery. I think there is a tendency to confuse House Hlaalu with the Camonna Tong, and the traditions of the Dunmer with House Redoran.

There's a lot more irony in House Dres' support of the abolition, although it's not inconceivable, or irreconcilable with other lore (especially with ESO's new contributions to Dres lore - which I must say I am quite appreciative of).

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:50 am 
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What exactly did Vivec do or say to convince Septim to not conqueror Morrowind in bloody conflict, back when it seemed Redoran would be the only house to oppose the Empire?


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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:18 am 
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Their conversation(s) are unknown, but Tiber apparently didn't need much convincing. Tiber's generals dreaded a war with Morrowind. They were making inroads (they sacked Mournhold, iirc), but a complete conquest of Morrowind was daunting. Vivec apparently foresaw their inevitable victory, though, and decided to roll with it. See here for details.

As an aside, in some OOG, Vivec implied that by making this deal, he was essentially killing Tiber Septim. That is, despite the benefits to the Empire from the deal, if Vivec had not made it, things would have actually turned out better for the Septim(s) in the long run.

Dagoth Ur might have had something to do with it. He reemerged near the end of the Second Era, and the threat he posed was likely why they both sought negotiation over war. "Hey, Tibey, we got our own problems without your damn Red Legions ****ing with us. Why don't we strike a deal so I can focus on stopping the devil incarnate?"

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:22 am 
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He probably believes he killed Septim through deceit and trickery - which, as the spiritual successor to Mephala suits him. It's true in a way. The Tribunal were quickly losing the potency of their Divinity. Septim didn't know that, but he sensed weakness and confusion among their ranks. They weren't the unified force that opposed the Remans and the Kamal. Something had shifted. It's very likely that with the Tribunal's powers largely focused on the Ghostfence, Septim could have eventually crushed their province, and imposed much stricter and more draconian laws on the Dunmer than they got out of the Armistice. Possibly. It was a big gamble, and he knew even if he ended up winning it would be at a terrible cost. So Vivec appeared and made him an offer he couldn't refuse, which ended up saving the Dunmer cultural identity and thousands of soldiers' lives on both sides. It was probably the best and wisest thing Vivec ever did in his official capacity as a godking of Morrowind, just as accepting the offer was one of Tiber's finest moments.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Vivec described Arctus and Tiber as without equals as well, while Talos didn't want to fight living gods almost as much as his generals. In the end, they were both given offers they couldn't refuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:07 pm 
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In 'The Arcturian Heresy', the Underking learns about Dagoth Ur. And while he wanted to invade Morrowind because of this and steal/reclaim the Tribunal's power, its possible that Tiber wanted nothing to do with the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur, and preferred letting the ghost fence do its job.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:15 am 
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I love the lore section. It's one of the main reasons I come back repeatedly to this site. I expect to continue coming back for many years.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:57 am 
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Woodhouse wrote:
In 'The Arcturian Heresy', the Underking learns about Dagoth Ur. And while he wanted to invade Morrowind because of this and steal/reclaim the Tribunal's power, its possible that Tiber wanted nothing to do with the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur, and preferred letting the ghost fence do its job.


This brings an interesting point to mind - in the absence of the Heart, Tiber needed an alternate power source for Numidium. The Mantella. It echoes the same type of power, but more faintly. Still, it's an immensely powerful soul jewel. It was created by an Underking and holds the soul of one. Perhaps Tiber made use of the intel gathered from Red Mountain after all, in the end, by using a power source that mimicked it, powered by the soul of the man who coveted it. If that's not a cruel irony that mirrors Convention nothing is. Except, in this model, Talos represents Trinimac or Auriel whereas the Underking represents Shor. So...maybe Herma Mora tricked at least one Nord into becoming an Elf after all. What a delicious irony that would be. Ho Ha Ho.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Was it the mirroring of convention, that gave those three so much power and or allowed them to become Talos ? Because if they had to mirror convention, then I give those three my stamp of approval. But, could they have decided to, I don't know, work together as three demi-gods, not betray each other, team up with the Tribunal, crush Dagoth Ur, and then go on to spread the ideas of CHIM and whatnot to the people?

I imagine that its as Zurin said though, and that there power was intimately bound up with the prophecy that they were partaking in, and trying to break from the prophecy would leave them powerless.

Oh! and Pilaf, there may be something to that idea. As far as I know, the tiber septim that sits the throne when its all said and done, could either be from high rock or Atmora/skyrim. Know, I don't know of any connection between Tiber Septim and Herma Mora, but we do know that Mora has a thing for dragonborns. So, if Tiber Septim playing the role of an elf is somehow connected to Mora, then that may be evidence that it was the Tiber Septim from Atmora who sat the throne, and not the one from High Rock. Potentially discrediting the Arcturian heresy.

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 Post subject: Re: Lore General Discussion!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:19 pm 
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Maybe not entirely discounting it. There's strong evidencefor Hjalti as well. Of course, "Hjalti" could simply be an alias, and he wouldn't necessarily have to be a Breton just because he's from High Rock. Either way, the Emperor having the Underking slain makes him more of an Auriel figure than anything else, and I could conceivably see him learning the secret of CHIM from Hermaeus Mora. The Daedra have knowledge of such things, though they can't use it themselves. Perhaps Mora traded some secrets to Tiber in exchange for something else.

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