Witch Hunter class lore

[amisp ●]

I have been getting back into Skyrim and roleplaying characters based around the pre made classes from previous games. I was looking at witch hunters and I was wondering if there was much lore directly related to witch hunters or what constitutes a witch/warlock vs an everyday mage. I understand that vigilants of stendar would be similar to witch hunters, but would all witch hunters see daedra as perverse? Thanks for any info you can offer.

[Minor Edits ●]

Let me save us all some time.

Someone will say something like "Witches worship daedra".

Someone else will then say "Nuh-uh; this book says different".

"That book sucks!"

"You suck!"

"Michael Kirkbride is a golden god!"

And all we can really tell you is that it's in the eye of the beholder. One person's everyday mage is another's warlock or witch.

Last edited by Minor Edits on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Br3admax ●]

Go against what society calls conventional in magic and you're a witch. That simple.

I'd say Crusader or Knight, both hunt witches in lore.

[Witchery ●]

Go against what society calls conventional in magic and you're a witch. That simple.

I'd say Crusader or Knight, both hunt witches in lore.

Not in The Elder Scrolls universe.

"Witch-hunter" is merely a title and isn't really someone who hunts witches specifically.

To answer the OP's question, in general, witches, warlocks, necromancers and other "black mages" are magic-users ostracized from society.

Last edited by Witchery on Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Br3admax ●]

Okay, when is that not true? I'm genuinely curious.

[Witchery ●]

Okay, when is that not true? I'm genuinely curious.

In every case besides the few times (female) mages are specifically referred to as "witches"? Mages that use magic in an unconventional way aren't called witches, generally, just rogue mages. Of course witches aren't approved of in most circles, but it is a case of: all witches are considered black mages, but not all black mages are witches.

Morrowind describes a Witchhunter as: "Witchhunters are dedicated to rooting out and destroying the perverted practices of dark cults and profane sorcery. They train for martial, magical, and stealthy war against vampires, witches, warlocks, and necromancers."

Dark cults include witch covens, certainly, but they also include daedra worshipers, necromancer clans, rogue mage hideouts and vampire covens.

[Br3admax ●]

Okay, when is that not true? I'm genuinely curious.

In every case besides the few times (female) mages are specifically referred to as "witches"? Mages that use magic in an unconventional way aren't called witches, generally, just rogue mages. Of course witches aren't approved of in most circles, but it is a case of: all witches are considered black mages, but not all black mages are witches.

Morrowind describes a Witchhunter as: "Witchhunters are dedicated to rooting out and destroying the perverted practices of dark cults and profane sorcery. They train for martial, magical, and stealthy war against vampires, witches, warlocks, and necromancers."

Dark cults include witch covens, certainly, but they also include daedra worshipers, necromancer clans, rogue mage hideouts and vampire covens.

Where? Where is this seen? I'm want to go in game and find it.

[Witchery ●]

Okay, when is that not true? I'm genuinely curious.

In every case besides the few times (female) mages are specifically referred to as "witches"? Mages that use magic in an unconventional way aren't called witches, generally, just rogue mages. Of course witches aren't approved of in most circles, but it is a case of: all witches are considered black mages, but not all black mages are witches.

Morrowind describes a Witchhunter as: "Witchhunters are dedicated to rooting out and destroying the perverted practices of dark cults and profane sorcery. They train for martial, magical, and stealthy war against vampires, witches, warlocks, and necromancers."

Dark cults include witch covens, certainly, but they also include daedra worshipers, necromancer clans, rogue mage hideouts and vampire covens.

Where? Where is this seen? I'm want to go in game and find it.

Here's Morrowind's description of "Witchhunter"...

If you want to go with in-game titles, then you can look at every enemy mage in Skyrim. Most are called variants of "Destruction specialty mage" and "Conjurer" and "Necromancer"; "Witches" are referred to as such.

[Br3admax ●]

Daggerfall set what a witch was a long time ago.

[Blackbird ●]

would all witch hunters see daedra as perverse?

I don't think Witch Hunters view Daedra as perverse, since witch hunters in Oblivion make extensive use of Conjuration (it is one of their Major Skills).

They are enemies of the typical evil Witch (summoning undead minions) and the Vampire in my opinion (as Witchery already stated). I would say they are more anti-undead based lorewise. I have played one in Oblivion and I have had lots of fun with it (magic + bows + stealth) is a nice combination, although this build is less conventional in Skyrim because you need to equip spells in your hand.

[Witchery ●]

@Br3admax: As if retcons haven't ever happened? Hagravens didn't even exist then, so obviously lore involving witches has changed. But that article still doesn't help your point, Bread. Nowhere in it (as far as I can tell) supports your claim.

My point about Witchhunters still stands, which is what the thread is about.

I agree with the undead statement, Blackbird. Witchhunters probably go after them too.

[Br3admax ●]

Witches in the Iliac Bay have gathered in groups to perform their actions from ancient times. What these actions are in detail probably only a witch knows, but the fact is covens possess an exhaustive knowledge of ancient lore. Witches are therefore able to summon the various Daedra Princes, thus giving one the opportunity to find one of the lost artifacts of ancient power. It's also rumored that witch covens have a vast knowledge of herbalism and curing diseases, and even the Mages Guild is said to rely on their services from time to time. On the other hand, the guild and the various temples in the bay paint a rather dark and wicked picture of the activities performed by these covens. Whether these rumors are true or not, most people believe in them, thus covens are often confronted with distrust and suspicion.

That is society set. Do you really believe that witches call themselves witches?

[Witchery ●]

Witches in the Iliac Bay have gathered in groups to perform their actions from ancient times. What these actions are in detail probably only a witch knows, but the fact is covens possess an exhaustive knowledge of ancient lore. Witches are therefore able to summon the various Daedra Princes, thus giving one the opportunity to find one of the lost artifacts of ancient power. It's also rumored that witch covens have a vast knowledge of herbalism and curing diseases, and even the Mages Guild is said to rely on their services from time to time. On the other hand, the guild and the various temples in the bay paint a rather dark and wicked picture of the activities performed by these covens. Whether these rumors are true or not, most people believe in them, thus covens are often confronted with distrust and suspicion.

That is society set. Do you really believe that witches call themselves witches?

The bolded parts still don't support this claim:

Go against what society calls conventional in magic and you're a witch. That simple.

Other mages that do exactly that aren't witches.

I think the bolded parts do support what I said here, however:

all witches are considered black mages, but not all black mages are witches.

To answer your question: in the same way that necromancers call themselves necromancers, witches call themselves witches. It is simply what they are.

[Dark Spark ●]

A crusader or a knight have many more fish to fry than a witch-hunter, so I'd say a witch-hunter is a specialist. Quite possibly obsessed.

It'd be interesting to figure if a witch-hunter will choose to use magic. They will most certainly study it, if for no other reason than defense.

If they choose to use magic, you have a roleplay where the difference between good and bad is in how the target uses magic.

Or you can form a roleplay where the witch-hunter abstains from magic and works around the problem with things such as alchemy, stealth and archery.

[Pilaf The Defiler ●]

The witch hunter class from previous ES games was always a magic specialist and typically used archery and conjuration in his or her skillset. It can be assumed these people don't uniformly condemn summoning or reanimation and often choose to fight fire with fire as it were.

If I am not mistaken some Ordinator NPCs in a Daedric ruin had the Witchhunter class. They wore blue robes and used bound weapons and shields.

[Br3admax ●]

Give me an example in game, Witchery, like I did. You won't do that, but you keep repeating your theories as fact. Where is your actual evidence, in game or otherwise, that "rogue mage" is even a term?

[Witchery ●]

Give me an example in game, Witchery, like I did. You won't do that, but you keep repeating your theories as fact. Where is your actual evidence, in game or otherwise, that "rogue mage" is even a term?

What? You didn't give me an example of your claim. I've given you quite a few. "Rogue mage" is just a general term I've used for a magic user that is unaffiliated with a guild/college/court/etc. . . one that lives ostracized from society for practicing some profane ritual or dark art or another. You claimed these are called witches, which they are not. The games refer only to actual witches (female spellcasters that learn magic from hagravens and often operate in covens) as "witches" -- other enemy spellcasters are known by magic specializations and the like. (ie: Pyromancer, Ice Wizard, Novice Necromancer) Rogue mages, black mages . . whatever. They're mages, not witches. (all witches are mages, not all mages are witches, remember?)

Your "evidence" told me what I already know and have not been disputing. I know that witches are considered suspicious at best and evil at worst. It is not news to me, and I am not disputing that fact. They're "black mages."

You have not supported your claim that:

Go against what society calls conventional in magic and you're a witch. That simple.

Plenty other mages "go against what society calls conventional magic." They're not witches for this.

This is what you're trying to prove, right? Not something else? Because we're going in circles over something that isn't even the main subject of the thread.

[amisp ●]

I appreciate all the great responses! I've been trying to roleplay more to get back into skyrim after a long break and am attempting to fit a specific mold. None of the classes seem to except witchhunter, and most of the witchhunter npc's that I found are vampire hunters or vigilants of stendar. I didn't want to be as specific as a vampire hunter, and not as fanatical as a vigilant of stendar.

I've been scouring the site looking for an npc that has skills in sneak, conjuration, archery, one-handed (blade etc), or a class set that involves three of those but the character uses the other. It seems excessive, but I'm doing it as justification of my character choice. So far I've found one, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Olyn_Seran. He has the class set of an archer, with conjuration as well.

I thought about making a spellsword, but I searched up and down for a single spellsword with sneak and couldn't find one. I even attempted to look at the sneak level of spellsword followers in skyrim and I couldn't find it. I'm being more than a little [&@%!] but it has almost become obsessive compulsive in my mind that I do this "correctly".

[amisp ●]

is the idea of a spellsword that sneaks "lore appropriate"? If this game was closer to morrowind I would play something along the lines of the bouyant armiger npc class. I can always justify it through backstory as there would probably still be some bouyant armigers around (although I was disappointed not to find any in dragonborn), but it seems like a cheap way of getting what I want.

[Pilaf The Defiler ●]

There's nothing in the lore preventing a spellsword or battlemage from being expert sneak but it's not within their orthodox training parameters.

[amisp ●]

thanks for the response, I've got another one for you Pilaf. How realistic that a witchhunter would be specific towards necromancers. the only in game "witchhunters" I seem to find are vigilants of stendar and they are pretty well fanatics.

[MARS ●]

Let's get one thing out of the way: the class name is misleading. I don't recall any canon Witch-Hunters in recent games. It was simply a class name. In real history, witch-hunters were charlatans who exploited people's superstitions for profit. They would go from village to village, "sense" a witch, fabricate "proof", rat her out, and burn her. The stupid townsfolk would reward them for "saving them". Maybe some of them even believed in the existence of witches themselves, but it's not really important. The term stems from the real world, and isn't an ES-specific role. The name was probably picked due to the easy deduction the player could make as to the focus of the class; battling spellcasters.

Exactly how this is done varies from game to game (I believe the Witch-Hunter in Morrowind was less magic-focused than in Oblivion), and from player to player, if we take custom classes into account. There isn't really any concrete lore recorded, so you can pretty much play a witch-hunter any way you feel like. As an individual obsessed with eradicating mages, as a mercenary who specializes in taking down spellcasters and so on. Pretty much any way you'd want it.

I believe every Witch-Hunter would have at least some magical ability, even if it's just one school, or enchanting. But as far as the rest of the skills go, I'd say it's fair game. Heavily armored and heavy hitting, shielded against spells by enchantments, or quick and deadly, protected against spell by agility and their own ability to cast spells.

[Witchery ●]

Let's get one thing out of the way: the class name is misleading. I don't recall any canon Witch-Hunters in recent games. It was simply a class name. In real history, witch-hunters were charlatans who exploited people's superstitions for profit. They would go from village to village, "sense" a witch, fabricate "proof", rat her out, and burn her. The stupid townsfolk would reward them for "saving them". Maybe some of them even believed in the existence of witches themselves, but it's not really important. The term stems from the real world, and isn't an ES-specific role. The name was probably picked due to the easy deduction the player could make as to the focus of the class; battling spellcasters.

Exactly how this is done varies from game to game (I believe the Witch-Hunter in Morrowind was less magic-focused than in Oblivion), and from player to player, if we take custom classes into account. There isn't really any concrete lore recorded, so you can pretty much play a witch-hunter any way you feel like. As an individual obsessed with eradicating mages, as a mercenary who specializes in taking down spellcasters and so on. Pretty much any way you'd want it.

I believe every Witch-Hunter would have at least some magical ability, even if it's just one school, or enchanting. But as far as the rest of the skills go, I'd say it's fair game. Heavily armored and heavy hitting, shielded against spells by enchantments, or quick and deadly, protected against spell by agility and their own ability to cast spells.

+1

The way I view the class systems in previous games (and the NPC categorization in Skyrim) is that they're merely the titles of a specific default skillset. They're suggestions as to how you should play your character, nothing more.

Since we're viewing this from a lore standpoint, how often is it that you would see a mercenary that falls under the class "scout" introduce himself as a scout? Someone who actually is a scout in the sense that they're a military officer sent to uncover information/enemy whereabouts/etc. would call themselves a scout, but may be more akin to an acrobat, an archer, or even an assassin with the class system.

Many of the classes, such as warrior, mage, thief . . . they're actual professions, but within each of them is a wide array of different skill sets that depends primarily on the individual. One thief could be an amazing pickpocket but a horrid lockpick, and a mage could still call himself a mage without actually utilizing every skill provided by the mage class description. (for example, if a mage studied Restoration primarily with a bit of Illusion and Alteration on the side, they'd still be a mage although they've neglected to go for all magical pursuits.) And warriors? There are many different kinds. Some use heavy armor, some use light. Some prefer axes, others swords, glaives, spears, maces, crossbows . . . warrior is an extremely versatile class. (well, I guess my point is that all classes are versatile from a lore standpoint.) Then of course we have classes that are actual occupations, like knight, battlemage, bard and scout.

Anyway, without further rambling, I'd just like to say: Don't read too much into classes. They're good starting points, but when it comes to lore, they're mostly inaccurate. (general descriptions are fine, of course; calling a magic-user of any kind a "mage" is perfectly accurate, if broad) Especially in Skyrim. Witchhunter is just a title.

[Pilaf The Defiler ●]

thanks for the response, I've got another one for you Pilaf. How realistic that a witchhunter would be specific towards necromancers. the only in game "witchhunters" I seem to find are vigilants of stendar and they are pretty well fanatics.

It really differs from culture to culture and province to province. Some nations are very liberal with necromancy and Daedra worship. Thras is the prime example. The profession of witch-hunter would be unheard of over there. Sloads are essentially weaned on magic and don't differentiate between the dark arts and other forms of casting. Then there's the Dunmer, who actually do worship some Daedra but not others. They believe strongly in putting "witches" to the stake, but the definition of what a witch is usually entails a person performing the same types of magical arts the Temple performs, just without its consent.

There are definitely orders in Tamriel specifically functioning on the premise of hunting down Necromancers. One such organization would be the Knights of the Lamp, associated with the old Mages' Guild. They specifically rooted out necromancy among the ranks of the guild, and hunted down rogue necromancers as well. That makes sense considering what Mannimarco and his minions did to the Guild throughout history. It's worth noting that Necromancy was never technically illegal in the Empire and individual mages and organizations may or may not tolerate it.