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What Is To Be Done?
Civil disobedience, we shall overcome. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Violent revolution; let the tubes run red! 10%  10%  [ 2 ]
Sever all ties with the old order, start again fresh. 10%  10%  [ 2 ]
Use the System, undermine it from within. 14%  14%  [ 3 ]
Install Jeff as King, hope for the best. 67%  67%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 21
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 Post subject: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:43 am 
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Serious question. Do we need mods? What role do they actually serve? What role should they serve? How did we get to the point where the Internet ceased to be about free and open expression, and became instead a collection of self-contained intellectual ghettos governed by rules of conduct arbitrarily defined by unelected tribunals of power-drunk geeks? And most important of all, how do we fix the problem?

This is not a simple, harmless issue. It is not even an issue confined to this forum, although, yes, certain recent reactionary "rollbacks" do make it a problem of topical interest to us proud, patriotic UESPers. It's far bigger than that. It cuts right to the heart of what makes the Internet "the Internet"- it undermines the founding principles upon which the Internet was based, and, left unexamined and unchecked, will destroy everything that made our sacred medium the most powerful force for progress and good that the world has ever known.

What do I mean by this? Well, first of all, we have to understand what those principles are. The Internet is, or at least was, based upon the hacker ethic, a creed of radical individualism and freedom of thought espoused by the brilliant post-hippie nerds who labored to build the modern Internet's framework three decades ago. It stated that information should be free, discussions should be open, power should be decentralized, and learning should never be forbidden. Basically, it's a modernist twist on the old liberal doctrine of the "marketplace of ideas", the belief that society can only and will only advance through freedom of thought, freedom of learning, and freedom of expression; that any attempts to control our access to or ability to disseminate information is both unjust and damaging to society. And these guys were right. The Internet has changed the world, for the better, in deeper ways than any other invention since fire and agriculture. In a few short years, it's gone from an academic luxury and experimental DARPA project to a daily part of each and every one of our lives, replacing, improving, or becoming indispensably linked to nearly every industry built since the advent of the printing press. The reason? Openness.


________________________________________________________________________________

Now, mods. We all know what mods are, right? Or do we? What are mods, really? In brief, moderating staff are a centralized power authority, empowered by a webmaster, claiming the authority to censor (or "moderate") content within a forum, imageboard, or other social media outlet.

Was this always the case? No. In fact, in the early days of the net, mods were completely unheard of! Only certain narrow, corporate-controlled internet islands (such as AOL's notoriously lame "Chat services") saw the need or desire to employ their own team of referees. Most "forums" were not forums at all, but informal newsgroups and IRC channels; even when modern "messageboard" formats began to appear, with tighter regulations and tracking of the userbase (such as through the imposition of mandatory usernames and logins), the bureaucratic staff tended to focus on technical problems and website maintenance, leaving the governing of the actual community where it belongs: in the hands of the community. With the rise of spam, that began to change. Forums began to get flooded with bogus messages, unsolicited advertisements, and misleading links. In fact, it got so bad that a traditional "hands-off" forum could expect to see 90-95% of it's content comprise nothing but automated messages from spambots. Needless to say, this tended to kill any messageboard-based communities so afflicted.

So, a deal with the devil was made. The webmaster's "staff" would be expanded. In addition to increasing controls placed upon membership ("email confirmation", captchas etc), the "junior management" would be expanded and tasked with policing and removing "unwanted" material. They would be, in essence, de facto censors, a team of e-police whose badge meant nothing outside of the webmaster's digital walls, charged with ensuring that the streets were kept clean of litter. And that was OK... right? Little bit of order, to save a lot of headache?

Unfortunately, as anyone who understands human nature and the dynamics of power could tell you, this "reasonable" accommodation didn't last long. Before too long, webmasters, or more properly, the moderating community itself, began to look for new avenues to explore. Internet users "accepted" moderators to keep their communities clean, right? So why not clean up some of the more flagrant "abuse"? We're all familiar with "flaming", right? Yelling, name-calling, and generally raging on the 'net? Why shouldn't mods do something about that, too?

Well, there's about a billion reasons why they shouldn't, but to their credit, this shift towards active hands-on paternalism took it's time. At first, most mods refrained from interfering with community issues UNLESS users specifically requested moderation. Not everyone is mature and sensible; like in the real world, there are some people who think the world revolves around them, and like to get "offended" when things don't go their way. These are exactly the same sort of people who write angry letters to congressmen demanding that video games be banned because Skyrim has some "naughty bits". When online and faced with flaming, these folks don't know how to handle themselves properly... so they dash to the nearest perceived authority figure in hopes they'll make it right. In other words, mods became playground monitors, charged with listening to tattletales. Offended? Cry about it, and maybe, just maybe, the Hand of Mod will intervene and make all your troubles go away. At first, again to their credit, most mods resisted this sort of flagrant emotional blackmail. Just tell em: "nobody likes a tattletale" and "if you don't like what the other kids are saying, go play with someone else". But once the floodgates were open, the tide could not be stemmed; before too long, it became de rigueur for this new centralized power structure to cave in to the whinging squawks of the emotionally fragile and socially inept.

Unfortunately, that was not the end of it. It was now accepted practice for mods to violate the rights of users based on the complaints of the community, or even a tiny minority faction therein. But why wait for complaints? Why wait for the community to decide what is and is not proper? Why can't the mods make judgement calls for themselves? Why indeed?

And with that thought, the last thread of sanity is severed. Moderating is no longer about keeping the servers up and running. It is no longer about keeping the community clean and functional. It is not even about censoring discussions based on communal morality defined by the community itself. Now, it is about censoring discussions based on morality imposed upon the community by the mod and the mod alone. What was once a free and open society, full of life and promise, has become, in a quite literal sense, an exercise in fascism. Power is no longer decentralized, it is central, absolute, and held by a poorly-trained group of amateurs not even theoretically empowered by the mandate of the people. Discussions are no longer open, they are tenuous at best and subject to approval by The Man. Communal standards are no longer organic and natural, they are artificial and imposed upon the rest of us by moderators and the very worst users. Information can be forbidden on the rather shaky grounds that it "may offend someone"- and, as anyone can tell you, once this premise is accepted, nothing is free.

_______________________________________________________________________________



Which leads me to the problem we are now faced with, the problem which we can, and must, address, for how we answer will determine the future of us all: what is to be done?

The answer is, really, up to you guys. I want to hear your opinions. I won't lie: I have no idea what must be done. o I know you'd all love me to channel my inner Lenin and call for a bloody Revolution to cast down our oppressors, but to be honest, I rather like some of the mods here. Take Avron, for example: I think we'd all be sad to see her go to the block. She's a wonderful human being with a good heart and a genuine interest in helping people. Some of the time. Mods aren't monsters, they're simply average geeks who've lost their way. o I'm tempted to call for a split, for a voluntary mass renunciation of the social ties corrupted by aggressive moderating, and a migration to a "new forum", one based on free, egalitarian principles (in much the same way as political dissidents might renounce corrupt systems and reorganize themselves into anarchist or even communist communes). However, I have no illusions about the prospects of such a move; it's been tried before, and the sad fact is, most people aren't cut out to embark on such an ambitious social project. There's more Caesars than Sullas in this world, and I'm not certain even I would have the moral strength to resist the urge to turn such a community into UESP 2.0, not now that the Internet has become so accustomed to totalitarian wickedness. o Nor can I see that eliminating mods altogether would be a good idea; it'd save the spirit and promise of the Internet, no doubt, but we'd also be left defenseless against the predations of spambots. Death by spam may be preferable to death by fascism, but it's still death. Mods, like the state, are perhaps a necessary evil... but how much of this evil do we allow to remain in our midst?




Possible ideas; again, I make no claim as to which would be best, nor am I specifically condoning or calling for any behavior found below. This is simply an academic exercise, asking "what if" and helping us to examine the problem from many different angles.
Spoiler:
Civil Disobedience: peaceful but tenacious resistance. We could all make it a point to post nothing BUT "banned" topics, discussing such things openly in a respectful, sensible manner, for a day, a week, a month, or however long it takes to effect change. Threads may be locked, users may be temporarily banned, but the mods would not be able to resist progress if we act in solidarity; as I said before, mods are not monsters (most of 'em, anyway...); given a choice between submitting to popular demands and banning absolutely EVERYONE, they'd choose the former.
Violent Revolution: hacktivism. DDoS, take over moderator accounts, leak dox, pr0n-bombs etc. If it will not grow, burn it down.
Sever Ties: start a new forum. Or rather, another new forum. Keep mod numbers low, hold open elections for term-limited moderator positions, restrict mod authority by adopting a strict system of enumerated powers and preventing admin-level users from interfering directly with forum content- rather, admins should function as mods for the mods, in addition to their behind the scenes technical duties, resolving grievances that regular users might have against overly zealous moderating.
Use the System: some of us should join the mods. Rework their dynamic from within, promoting free discourse and an open forum wherever and whenever possible... perhaps fighting for a civilized system similar to the one described above.

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Last edited by DorostheConqueror on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:59 am 
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If there weren't mods this topic would be full of spam.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:00 am 
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He's got a point. <_<

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:08 am 
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Mod's are needed, then again I'm 90% this is a joke thread....

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:10 am 
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tl;dr

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:20 am 
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Long, still read.

Mods are needed. Doesn't mean I always agree with their actions. However I think the froums would be worse off if we had no mods.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:27 am 
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You know what we do need? More tea parties, and definitely more pastries, particularly ones full of fruit and jelly. When do we get those? That's a tragedy that I can stand no more! Rise up, people, and demand more tea parties!

Oh, wait. I'm not here. Never mind. But rise up anyway in my spirit!

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:29 am 
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shifty eyes

clicks second option

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:30 am 
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Avron the S'wit wrote:
You know what we do need? More tea parties, and definitely more pastries, particularly ones full of fruit and jelly. When do we get those? That's a tragedy that I can stand no more! Rise up, people, and demand more tea parties!

You should ask Musicman about that mod he's working on!

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:32 am 
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But Musicman is a mod :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:33 am 
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I seem to be Tea Party incarnate right now. Would anyone like a crumpet?
Spoiler:
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Fight the System! No more mods! Play Skyrim without any extras!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:34 am 
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Yes, I would! I'm stuck late at work, and crumpets > vending machine crap

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:08 am 
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tl;dr Just voted.

Mods are needed. Although, things would be much better with Jeff as KING. He can kill bots from miles away..he's a sniper :P


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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:31 am 
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I leave for a couple of weeks and y'all start a revolution?

No fair. I wanted to be the guy that carried the pitchfork into town hall.


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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:06 am 
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A free life is still free for great souls: I suggest weaseling your way into the echelons of power and then enacting liberal reforms, or, since that is often impractical and/or hard, going to a place where the moderation is more to your liking. It's not like US politics, where as an aspiring public servant you have two choices for networks within which to ascend; on the webz you can look for a site with just the right mix of quality posters and lax content guidelines, which perches at your preferred spot on the Law-Chaos alignment chart. Then, from the comfort of your own little free republic in the tubes (if you can keep it), you can give to the rest of those noobish newfriend fascists and fuddy duddies on other sites the big "up youse guyses."

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:18 am 
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Mods are good for moderating.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:50 am 
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Mods are needed to keep the place tidy etc. I don't particulary think they need to monitor content as the forum is voluntary, if you don't like a post tell the poster or leave the thread. I voted to install Jeff as King mainly because I don't think Jeff wants to be a Mod and anybody who wants to be a Mod is probably not the right person to be a Mod. I think the mods can be a bit too friendly but it is understandable as I guess they are members as well and share the same passion for video games that led us all here.

On the whole the Mods here seem to do a decent job although I have nothing to compare them with.

We certainly don't need hacktivism here, the only people who should be able to tamper with peoples accounts should be Cam and Avron and that is only because it is funny when they mess with each others settings.


Last edited by Stormborn on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:03 am 
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Or you could just save your entire post for later? Unless I'm missing some cosmic satire of the concepts in this thread...


I voted to install Jeff as king. If all goes well, the Lords of court will disseminate the country's wealth through miniature collectivist states loosely confederated to form an isolationist nation. We have a few decades before the technological singularity, so we can just pretend for the time being that global politics doesn't exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:14 am 
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jeff as king....... hell yes

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Musicman247 wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:55 am 
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King Jeff? I've been getting some Buddhistic vibes from the gentleman, with his talk about breaking the cycle of violence and suffering and other hullabaloo. So he'd be kind of like the Dali Llama, then?

Pic related, what a Dali Llama might look like:
Spoiler:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:19 am 
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I'm getting quite good at guessing which thread is started by Doros just by reading the title.


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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:26 am 
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Abel wrote:
I'm getting quite good at guessing which thread is started by Doros just by reading the title.

QFT


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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:50 am 
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The Jeff is dead/long live the Jeff!

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:16 am 
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Avron the S'wit wrote:
Oh, wait. I'm not here. Never mind. But rise up anyway in my spirit!

Wait... aren't I your spirit? Yes, rise up in... me... wait... I don't think I like that plan...

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 Post subject: Re: Do we really need mods?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Err... Is there any option for:

Doros is a troll and we should have mods?

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