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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:41 am 
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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:09 am 
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The only issue I have regarding this new ban is where the line is drawn. As I recall, there were "heated" debates after Skyrim first came out about the Civil War and about the racism in the game. Are we strictly banned from real-world controversial topics, or does the ban extend beyond that into Elder Scrolls games?

I'm just looking for the boundary-lines in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:16 am 
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House of the Wolf wrote:
The only issue I have regarding this new ban is where the line is drawn. As I recall, there were "heated" debates after Skyrim first came out about the Civil War and about the racism in the game. Are we strictly banned from real-world controversial topics, or does the ban extend beyond that into Elder Scrolls games?

I'm just looking for the boundary-lines in this case.

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I'm pretty sure the mods know better than to stop Elder Scrolls debates. Those are some of the best discussions the forum has. Nothing wrong with debating on things that aren't real.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:24 am 
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That is until the threats start flying.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:45 am 
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Frost Mage wrote:
I'm pretty sure the mods know better than to stop Elder Scrolls debates. Those are some of the best discussions the forum has. Nothing wrong with debating on things that aren't real.

But it's boooooring!

Who cares about some silly game. The best discussions you can have are about the facets of real life.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:51 am 
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Yeah, but there is a lot lower chance of someone getting angry when debating something that doesn't matter as opposed to serious subjects.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:57 am 
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Unless said people be mature over it, and just realise it is some guy/gal sitting at a screen somewhere in the world.

The internet is vast, and so are opinions. People are bound to disagree. Deal w/ it.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:59 am 
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Ed~ wrote:
The best discussions you can have are about the facets of real life.

The best discussions are discussions, not arguments.

Ed~ wrote:
The internet is vast

See point #3

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:02 am 
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Scozzar wrote:
That is until the threats start flying.


*raises hand* I haven't seen any threats insofar. :P

Yeah, so, whatever the mod team decided, I'll run with. You guys, our stalwart protectors against ourselves. <3


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:08 am 
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Musicman247 wrote:
See point #3


Wut

Well just because there are forums to debate stuff like this, doesn't mean they're that great to use.

You say this is a "Friendly forum". Well shouldn't a friendly forum be able to discuss such matters without conflict?

Or really are you just hiding the fact most people here perhaps despise certain people, or cliques. And this suppression of such expression is only going to cause more underlying conflict.

Perhaps the issue is not the debate threads, but the forum itself.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:33 am 
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Eltee wrote:
Scozzar wrote:
That is until the threats start flying.


*raises hand* I haven't seen any threats insofar. :P

Yeah, so, whatever the mod team decided, I'll run with. You guys, our stalwart protectors against ourselves. <3


I can only relate to one of the StormCloaks vs. Empire threads...which I ended up accidentally deleting...Seriously, it was an accident.

Ed~ wrote:
Well just because there are forums to debate stuff like this, doesn't mean they're that great to use.


This is the same case here. This forum, as of now, isn't great when it comes to behaving and acting maturely in debate topics.

Ed~ wrote:
You say this is a "Friendly forum". Well shouldn't a friendly forum be able to discuss such matters without conflict?


Talk to your fellow members about that.

Ed~ wrote:
Or really are you just hiding the fact most people here perhaps despise certain people, or cliques. And this suppression of such expression is only going to cause more underlying conflict.


Moderators are simply moderators, not therapists, so if people do have a problem with other members that's fine, but posting it in the forums where everyone else can see it is not acceptable even when you deem it "expression." In reality that "expression" is nothing more than hatred.
Ed~ wrote:
Perhaps the issue is not the debate threads, but the forum itself.

No, it's the debate threads. There was a time where debate threads were not even allowed before any of the current mods were mods. It was much better that way. Most members don't like the change and that's all dandy and fine, but come back to me in a month and tell me that this place is not as friendly as it was when we had the debate threads and I'll give you ten bucks :P

This forum isn't a place where you can push ones personal agenda's and personal belief on each other nevertheless argue about them, which is what was happening in all of the debate threads.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:53 am 
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Knight Captain Kerr wrote:
This is like stoping car crashes by outlawing driving. I guess I can live with it.


This is probably the best way to sum it up, because it's true that most of the debates we have here are only flamed because of a specific group of people. If the moderators feel bad about banning this group for breaking the rules, that's on them, but it's not fair to everyone else-- the people who actually can debate. Cactopia actually has decent debates and hasn't had an issue with this because we actually do warn and ban people who cause too much trouble. Doros is a prime example of a former Cactopian who-- despite his intentions in doing so-- rattled the cage a bit too much in the threads.

That said, it's true that this is a gaming forum, and whether or not debates on life are allowed is a decision strictly left to the people who volunteer to moderate it. Cactopia is more suited because it's a forum about life (and also because the number one rule is about personal responsibility), so I'm not going to pretend that my comparison of the two is wholly accurate. My only qualm with this decision, personally, is the lack of action taken before it got to the point wherein this was made remotely necessary. To extrapolate: this was a last resort that was used in lieu of the steps leading up to it, including temp- and perm-banning the offending users.

Respect and deepest regards to the mods.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:16 am 
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I don't know though, most of the things said aren't really that hurtful. In the forums we, as in some users, tell someone that they are wrong. I think the debates could work actually if we didn't present sides. Maybe we should just lean toward one side or the other without being overbearing. Some of us feel really strongly towards a topic and may come across as rash. If presented evidence towards a topic, without making it personal, we could debate. I just don't know if everyone can do that.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:33 am 
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Br3admax wrote:
I don't know though, most of the things said aren't really that hurtful. In the forums we, as in some users, tell someone that they are wrong. I think the debates could work actually if we didn't present sides. Maybe we should just lean toward one side or the other without being overbearing. Some of us feel really strongly towards a topic and may come across as rash. If presented evidence towards a topic, without making it personal, we could debate. I just don't know if everyone can do that.


This is exactly my point-- except for the "not presenting sides", because "presenting (and discussing) sides" is literally the definition of debate. The spear of my rhetoric is directly aimed at the offending users who took the "debates" too far and turned them into flame wars. I'll admit that I've been guilty of this myself a couple times, but that's why we have moderators in the first place: to watch, warn, and cut users who repeatedly offend.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:37 am 
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It's not that I'm against sides, it's just that I don't want one sided debates. Even the debator doesn't have to agree only prove a point, but that is hard to do when no one helps you or if five people yell at you.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:01 am 
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Br3admax wrote:
It's not that I'm against sides, it's just that I don't want one sided debates. Even the debator doesn't have to agree only prove a point, but that is hard to do when no one helps you or if five people yell at you.


People will debate on whichever side they want to debate. If you can't handle five people (civilly) debating you, then it would be good to stay out of the thread.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:05 am 
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Wolf wrote:
Br3admax wrote:
It's not that I'm against sides, it's just that I don't want one sided debates. Even the debator doesn't have to agree only prove a point, but that is hard to do when no one helps you or if five people yell at you.


People will debate on whichever side they want to debate. If you can't handle five people (civilly) debating you, then it would be good to stay out of the thread.

They will debate, but the one alone may retaliate more fierce, that leads to arguments. Everyone isn't mature, and maybe that's the problem.
On a side note: Why am I debating on how to debate?

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Last edited by Br3admax on Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:09 am 
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Br3admax wrote:
They will debate, but the one alone may retaliate more fierce, that leads to arguments. Everyone isn't mature, and maybe that's the problem.
On a side note: Why am I debating on how to debate.

What's important is that this debate is mature!

Kinda ironic in the light of things.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:28 am 
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Br3admax wrote:
Wolf wrote:
People will debate on whichever side they want to debate. If you can't handle five people (civilly) debating you, then it would be good to stay out of the thread.

They will debate, but the one alone may retaliate more fierce, that leads to arguments.


It is the responsibility of each person to conduct hisself in a manner promoting civility and open discussion in debate threads. The number of people on the opposing side does not give the apologist an excuse to act any differently.

Quote:
Everyone isn't mature, and maybe that's the problem.


Again: mods watch, warn, and ban specifically for this reason.

Quote:
On a side note: Why am I debating on how to debate?


I don't know, but look how civil we're being.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:42 am 
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You're all wrong! You guys obviously know nothing about these forums, or life for that matter, and you should all go play in traffic.


Spoiler:
Good idea Mods, I was getting out of control!

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:47 am 
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Believe wrote:
You're all wrong! You guys obviously know nothing about these forums, or life for that matter, and you should all go play in traffic.


Good idea Mods, I was getting out of control!


Totally. It was all you. Every time I said "them" or "specific group of people", I really meant "Believe is an [&@%!]".

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:02 am 
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What's wrong about this change is that you punish the majority because a few 3 people are constantly butthurt and yell at people on the internet, because that makes them so cool, like.

Come on, change it back and make everyone happy, or just make a new debate sub-forum and make everyone happy.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:04 am 
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Ed~ wrote:
What's important is that this debate is mature!

Kinda ironic in the light of things.



you know as well as I do its not so much "debates" as the topic of said debate

Almost evrey one has at least ONE time where they name called or insulted someone., or in some shape or form broke the rules.



Quote:
What's wrong about this change is that you punish the majority because a few 3 people are constantly butthurt and yell at people on the internet, because that makes them so cool, like.

Becuse rules where being broken by many pepole claiming that a debate can work...

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:20 am 
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People get mad at debates, that's normal. People just need to not fling insults because they're mad.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:28 am 
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But we had been told in evrey thread and evrey time it happen.

They locked how many threads? This site just cant debate that stuff with out it the mods come in evrey 2nd page or so and warn and then lock it after the 573737 time

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