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 Post subject: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Grand Master
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Users of UESP, as you may know the Moderator Team has been allowing political, religious and other controversial topics to slowly become integrated into our forum, specifically in the General Banter Sub-forum. In recent months the number of complaints about the topics, and some of the people posting in them, has greatly increased to the point where we simply cannot allow these topics in the forums anymore. There are several reasons why we are reverting back to our old ways:

    1. It tarnishes the friendly atmosphere we strive to achieve. We thought allowing these kinds of threads would make us a more well-rounded community, but in the long run they have caused more harm than good.
    2. The topics we have allowed have almost all been locked at one point or another, either permanently or to clean up the thread.
    3. This is intended to be a gaming forum, not a free speech, political, or debate forum as some people think it is. If you MUST post something controversial there are other, more appropriate places you may do so.
    4. We see mainly the same few people post in these threads and as an effect contribute less to the more vital parts of the Forum. (We have 20+ other subforums on the UESP Forums that are in need of some attention as well.)
    5. The General Forum is a place where people can meet, make new friends and have friendly discussions, not to poke fun or bicker with each other.
    6. The topics usually devolve into both sides trying to convince the each other that their stance is better.
    7. Personal attacks have become all too common in these threads.

So after a long debate of our own regarding this topic, we have decided it would be better if we excluded political, religious and other controversial topics like these from the forums indefinitely. As stated above, there are 20+ subforums that benefit from you when you post in them to help other members, which is the main reason we have the forums here at UESP.

We look forward to the environment this will create in the General Banter Sub-forum,
The Moderator Team.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Oh no, someone got offended!

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Yeaaaaaah. I'm just going to shake my head and wait for everyone to calm down.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:30 pm 
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I called it that this exact thing would happen, when it was debated to begin allowing these on a larger scale. It's no surprise, really. The very thread where the discussion to allow these was a hotly fought battleground of nonsense. As such, it's no surprise the same would be true for all of the threads that were created revolving around these topics.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Not sure if this is good or bad or how it will actually move people back to the TES sub-forums.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:36 pm 
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It's not meant to. >_>

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:37 pm 
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I think this is a dumb change and it won't do anything to address the points you made but what can I do now? No debating allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Stormborn wrote:
Not sure if this is good or bad or how it will actually move people back to the TES sub-forums.


Or away completely. You can't talk about the same handful of games forever.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Especially since the Skyrim hype has died already.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Veck wrote:
I think this is a dumb change and it won't do anything to address the points you made but what can I do now? No debating allowed.


It clearly addresses the points he has made. Since you don't seem to realize how, let me explain a bit more in-depth.

Scozzar wrote:
1. It tarnishes the friendly atmosphere we strive to achieve. We thought allowing these kinds of threads would make us a more well-rounded community, but in the long run they have caused more harm than good.

This is clearly true. For every thread of these that goes well there are an infinity more that go poorly. I honestly can't think of a single one of these threads that actually went well.
Scozzar wrote:
2. The topics we have allowed have almost all been locked at one point or another, either permanently or to clean up the thread.

This is also obvious, and something I pointed out when people wanted a debate forum just for this nonsense. By not allowing these threads again, it won't be necessary to lock these threads.
Scozzar wrote:
3. This is intended to be a gaming forum, not a free speech, political, or debate forum as some people think it is. If you MUST post something controversial there are other, more appropriate places you may do so.

This is also something I pointed out months ago. There are sites dedicated to exactly this kind of thing. There are much more appropriate places to discuss things like a boycott of a fast food chain over an insult towards a group of people than a forum dedicated to gaming.
Scozzar wrote:
4. We see mainly the same few people post in these threads and as an effect contribute less to the more vital parts of the Forum. (We have 20+ other subforums on the UESP Forums that are in need of some attention as well.)

I pointed this out before as well. You almost always see the same familiar faces in these threads, continuously fighting with each other. It is not productive to anyone to continue to allow this to happen.
Scozzar wrote:
5. The General Forum is a place where people can meet, make new friends and have friendly discussions, not to poke fun or bicker with each other.

Considering how many fights there have been and how many people have been largely mocked, I can't see how you can deny this. Just take any thread Frost Mage has made and you will almost definitely see someone insulting him. It's not really a nice environment if these kind of threads are allowed, and it will inevitably attract the kind of users who thrive in this kind of behavior. By continuing to allow this, we'll become increasingly focused on this nonsense and not what we're truly about.
Scozzar wrote:
6. The topics usually devolve into both sides trying to convince the each other that their stance is better.

Another thing I pointed out. These threads aren't two opposing sides laying down their arguments and letting people make up their own mind on these issues, as a debate thread should work. These are terrible fights between both sides to crush the other.
Scozzar wrote:
7. Personal attacks have become all too common in these threads.

Once again, the way banning these threads deals with this is obvious. There won't be personal attacks in these threads if they don't take place.

Mars wrote:
Stormborn wrote:
Not sure if this is good or bad or how it will actually move people back to the TES sub-forums.


Or away completely. You can't talk about the same handful of games forever.

Ed~ wrote:
Especially since the Skyrim hype has died already.


If people are only sticking around to fight over these issues, maybe it would be best if they leave. There are plenty of other things to do on this site. There are roleplays, mods, games, art, more pleasant discussions, etcetera etcetera. By banning one kind of thread it won't drive everyone away. And if it does drive anyone away, then their main reason for being here was most likely causing trouble in these threads, and I'm fairly certain many people won't mourn their leaving if this is true.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:02 pm 
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I'm simply upset that it's so difficult for a mature and adult discussion to be held on any sort of controversial topic here. This seems to me to be a necessary move.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Unfortunately topics like religion and politics don't tend to generate mature and adult discussion they just disolve into pointless wrangling and name calling. So if this move stops that it's a good thing. The bad thing as I see it, is that it starts moving away from more serious discussions (for what may be good reasons) and opens the way for more silliness like which is the best pony/pokemon or 47 more RPs featuirng the same group of players.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Well dammit, I used to read those flame slinging threads for entertainment. Now where am I supposed to get my daily dose of my opinion's better than yours?

This place seems allergic to good debates but good internet debates can be had. Yes, I know, shocking.
Damn you UESP, why can't you be more like Cactopia? *shakes fist*


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:47 pm 
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I think I'm going to like this change. That being said, is the moderator team looking into a debate sub-forum?

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:52 pm 
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I did start up a debate thread with Cam's blessing a while back, so it might happen. If I can find a serious non contraversial topic I might even start it up again.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:33 pm 
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It's normally the same few members that get these topics locked... why not just ban them from posting in them instead of completely getting rid of them for everyone? A lot of the topics on this forum are just boring to read or participate in.

Cutting away stuff like this just makes me want to avoid the forums again and gives me even less reason to read anything, especially since I no longer hang around the TES forums all that much. It will just go back to the old boring general banter section now so this is hardly a new thing and a new 'attitude' for GB.

To quote probably the best thing I've read in this thread so far:
Ed~ wrote:
Oh no, someone got offended!


A political sub-forum would have worked best, and should have been used with a strict rule set attached. If someone is being a complete nob in such topics just warn them.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:43 pm 
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Scozzar wrote:
1. It tarnishes the friendly atmosphere we strive to achieve. We thought allowing these kinds of threads would make us a more well-rounded community, but in the long run they have caused more harm than good.

This, a thousand times this. I know it may sound stupid to get angry over an internet debate, but it truly does hurt how I react to people in the non political threads because I got angry at them. I'm just shocked no one pulled the Hitler card in any of the threads I read...

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:50 pm 
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It doesn't sound stupid, it just sounds like every teenager on the planet.

Point 1 sounds so much like a school mission statement.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:52 pm 
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I agree with Stormborn. You think everyone is nice and that everyone likes everyone? Hah, I could tell you stories...

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:59 pm 
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To be honest if someone post something I don't like or agree with I ignore it, if they do it again I stick them on my ignore list and they cease to be a problem and life goes on. Not really a critiscism, although it will read that way, maybe if the Mods cracked the whip a bit more rather than wanting to be everybodies friend this new rule wouldn't have been needed at all.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Can't say I didn't see this coming.
For god sakes, I could have a thread about tofu on these forums and it would turn into an argument over gay rights.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:42 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:48 pm 
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I know the debates are really just us yelling across the world about facts and opinions we can't change to people we will probably never met, but I'm wondering: isn't that what a debate is.

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 Post subject: Re: New rules regarding the General Banter subforum
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Well, this is some stuff. I'll approach this by saying.... I'm sorry. Image

I was having fun, mostly, but I guess others weren't. I shall formally pledge to ban myself from subjective, political debates (with exceptions) as punishment for part..


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