Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:49 am
Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:24 am
Dark Spark wrote:Mrs T wrote: ...I don't know 'bout your tea party specifically but what's with all the extreme right wing parties that have been springing up lately?
I know they've always been there but why did they start getting votes all of a sudden?
Obama. Quite simply, he is the most socialist President to have ever taken office in the United States, a proponent of the notion that the State will best provide. Insourcing, bureaucracy, mandates.
Whether or not that is a good or bad thing isn't the issue. The ultra-conservative movements that have sprung up are a direct response to his adminstration. Sadly, the only way that some of these movements make their response is to do the exact opposite of whatever Obama tries to do— logic or the greater good be damned.
Eltee wrote:And in a brief response to Doros: Everyone seems to regard socialism as being some untried, experimental scheme that would inevitably end in failure.
Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:42 am
...opposing the over-privileged wealthy" by supporting a system that gives even more privileged to an even smaller caste of even wealthier rich guys?
Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:43 am
DorostheConqueror wrote:Dark Spark wrote:Mrs T wrote: ...I don't know 'bout your tea party specifically but what's with all the extreme right wing parties that have been springing up lately?
I know they've always been there but why did they start getting votes all of a sudden?
Obama. Quite simply, he is the most socialist President to have ever taken office in the United States, a proponent of the notion that the State will best provide. Insourcing, bureaucracy, mandates.
Whether or not that is a good or bad thing isn't the issue. The ultra-conservative movements that have sprung up are a direct response to his adminstration. Sadly, the only way that some of these movements make their response is to do the exact opposite of whatever Obama tries to do— logic or the greater good be damned.
Yeah, all those ultra-conservatives, not going along with what the Big 'Bama wants to do. All I gotta say is: thank God the ultra-conservatives are getting it right for a change!
Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:49 am
Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:01 am
Scozzar wrote:Gideon Dragontongue wrote:And, of course, funding wars, which make them more money, so they can then fall from a greater height.
What? That makes no sense. If we're funding wars, doesn't that mean we're giving money away?
Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:10 am
House of the Wolf wrote:Realistically, the US was a much more "socialistic" society during the Cold War (irony, anyone?) than it is currently. 90% top marginal tax rate on personal income, and a top marginal tax rate of more than 50% on businesses was the norm at the height of that era (the 50's and 60's); and growth was it at its highest ever, at that point in time (relatively speaking). The high rates were offset by legitimate incentives for individuals and companies to follow--such as keeping business domestic, and paying employees are certain amount. At that point, too, the federal government was far more involved with regulating the market, and keeping investment banks completely separate from deposit/savings banks.
Everything worked, because the government had the capital it needed to keep everything running. Along came the idiotic notion of "keep your government hands off my social security/medicare" brought on and instilled by the gluts on the right, perceived and delivered by corporate interests tired of having to actually earn incentives and wanting to pay less while doing less (among many other fallacies pervaded by the likes of Ayn Rand and her subscribers), and the services provided by the government started to fall apart. Then came the monkeys jumping up and down, screaming how the government doesn't work.
For those who subscribe to this anti-socialist notion, here's what you'd be saying we should not have:
1) A postal system that has generally been among the world's best for the better part of two centuries
2) Paved roads in nearly every major part of the US (excepting Alaska)
3) A school system that taught the vast majority of you how to read, write, and comprehend basic math, and (hopefully) taught you at least basic history
4) An emergency services system (police, medical, and fire) that responds to you relatively immediately and effectively--whom most like to decry, up until you actually need help
5) A standardized, elite military that has protected our borders, and the borders of others, for the better part of two entire centuries
6) A public works system that built and maintains water and electricity running into the majority of your homes
So yes, keep whining about the limited taxes you actually spend, and Obama keeps at or below 30% (lowest rates in the history of this country), and how much you're tired of paying for someone else's well-being. One day, after people (hopefully) wake up and realize how far their heads have gone up their asses, all of this stupidity will make for excellent cinema.
Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:17 am
Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:21 am
Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:44 am
Eltee wrote:Saying the National Socialists were Socialists is like saying the Democratic Republic of Korea is Democratic.
list of rights which don't exist and impose oppressive duties upon others that violate rights which do exist
...opposing the over-privileged wealthy" by supporting a system that gives even more privileged to an even smaller caste of even wealthier rich guys?Sure.
Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:53 am
Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:43 pm
Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:10 pm
Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:12 pm
Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:15 pm
Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:56 pm
Stops abuses, monopolization, etc. Sounds counter productive, but what isn't? It's rarely as simple as laissez faire/communism.
Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:06 am
Sloady wrote:Capitalism is getting [&@%!] without proper regulation, yes.
Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:59 am
Musicman247 wrote:The one good thing about privatization is competition. If the government is the sole provider of anything it will cost more than if there are companies competing for customers. Competition drives down prices and pushes innovation. Monopolization leads to stagnation. And if this brief revelation causes heart palpitations, then this information might spur re-creation.
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:15 am
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:25 am
Frost Mage wrote:With capitalism it comes down to a central control. Same thing with schools. Easier to control a large set of people when everyone learns to think the same way.
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:30 am
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:33 am
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:34 am
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:35 am
Eltee wrote:Something like that.
Well, let's see if we can raise a collective 'yay' for democracy!
Yay!
Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:54 am
Musicman247 wrote:Frost Mage wrote:With capitalism it comes down to a central control. Same thing with schools. Easier to control a large set of people when everyone learns to think the same way.
I believe you're thinking of something else. Capitalism is an economic policy, not governmental.