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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Given years of practice, perhaps. But I guess here was food involved, in which case anything can be proven or disproven.

I know they're smart, but I bet my rabbit could do the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:14 pm 
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POMC S117 wrote:
JV, apes are very smart! Extremely smart. it is not a coincidence. In my opinion.
this. and NO. They taught them to use symbols to communicate, then ''interview'' them.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:15 pm 
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What do you mean this and no?

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:17 pm 
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POMC S117 wrote:
What do you mean this and no?
this=agree with you post, NO=there wasn't food.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Ahh... Thanks for clearing that up.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Well, I don't believe it in any case.''They used food for training, and they could have made them believe those three symbols would give more food.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:24 pm 
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JVElEven wrote:
Well, I don't believe it in any case.''They used food for training, and they could have made them believe those three symbols would give more food.
They taught them over 200 symbols I think. They would sometimes say ''me hungry'' or ''banana good'' or thing like that, but there's no way these things were coincidences.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:24 pm 
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That's easy for you to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:44 pm 
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JVElEven wrote:
That's easy for you to say.

Yes, the truth is always easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:49 pm 
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See, there's one thing I don't get about the Bible. People say that God is the author. But the Bible is wrong in some circumstances, contradicting itself. Now, I'm not on anybody's side here, but surely if God is perfect then the Bible would also be?

How I choose to interpret the Bible, is that if it is right, then God isn't the author. God influenced it, yes, but he didn't say "Let there be words!" then sit down and started on a typewriter. God supposedly gave us free will, which surely would extend to the free will to get stuff wrong. That way, both arguments have merit. Think about it this way. God is a politician. (What a terrible world that would be.) One of the writers of the Bible is a journalist. When they write something down that he says, they misinterpret it, or get a few words wrong. In a way, that is the politician's fault for not being clearer, but the true error lies with the journalist, even if it is simple human error.

To be honest, I don't get the whole "Atheists Vs Christians" thing, or as it shall now be known, "Angel vs Lightsaber. Both have done good things, both have done bad. People use religion or a lack of as tools, to manipulate people. Both have killed and spewed hatred for their beliefs, or lack of. A lot of the time, it's not even about that. But even when it is, both sides are still human. (Unless you're a Scientologist, but I'll come back to them in a later post if I have time. People on the angel side get annoyed because people on the lightsaber side say that they can't go to heaven, there is no heaven, angels are only in pound cake form, etc. Likewise, the people on the lightsaber side gets annoyed when the angel side say they'll go to Hell unless they worship God, and that the Devil tortures robots and wil torture you too. (Yeah, talking about religion whilst watching Futurama. Genius.)

When each side says that the other is wrong, that's okay if it is a peaceful, rational debate. But most of the time, it isn't. Because each side believes that they are right, and are unwilling to compromise. So let's compromise.

Hey Angel side, remember those Bible verses that say if you work or light a fire on Sunday, if a child curses their parents, if your oxen injure someone through negiligance or if anybody has sex with an animal, then they shall burn in Hell for evermore? Do you believe them? If you said no, well done, you're being rational. If you said yes, please go away before you stab me for trying to cook a Sunday roast on, suprisingly, a Sunday.

Lightsaber side, centuries ago, religion helped people live their lives morally. It still does. Despite the conflict that a lot of you believe comes with it, a lot more would have happened without it. Without religion, society most likely would not have progressed until only a few hundred years ago. With it, we are still developing today, even if it is in new ways. You still believe in justice, hopefully. Religion helped cement that into us.

And if you can't do that, at least stop holding the WBC and shooters as examples to show how "evil" the other side is, eh?

Dammit, and all that stuff was before you guys started talking about chimps. Anyway, as has been stated, chimps are smart. Sure, you can teach them to do that, but don't dismiss the possibility that they have religion or some form of spiritualism. Some religions honour monkeys.

Ahh stop making new posts this is the third time this has happened in this thread for this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:51 pm 
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I'll compromise. And that was a very well-written post!

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:03 pm 
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Indeed. Clap, clap, clap.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:01 pm 
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I was a sturdy Bible Believer a couple of pages ago, and then something happened: my father died. And he certainly wasn't a believer in anything but himself. The conception of Heaven and Hell suddenly got new dimensions for me. My mother committed suicide, my older brother was a notorious and extremely violent criminal. With these prospects, I'd be the only one in our family to reach Heaven.

Call that a bingo?

I don't know. I simply don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:20 pm 
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Andere wrote:
I was a sturdy Bible Believer a couple of pages ago, and then something happened: my father died. And he certainly wasn't a believer in anything but himself. The conception of Heaven and Hell suddenly got new dimensions for me. My mother committed suicide, my older brother was a notorious and extremely violent criminal. With these prospects, I'd be the only one in our family to reach Heaven.

Call that a bingo?

I don't know. I simply don't know.

Sorry about that, man! Condolences!

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:04 pm 
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Andere, I'm sorry for your loss. This must be hard for you, losing two parents and basically losing a sibling.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:11 pm 
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You seriously believe that committing suicide will stop your mother from getting into heaven?


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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Well most religions have a negative stance on suicide. The way they see it, and I see it, is that there are basically desecrating God's temple, your body. But Andere, if she led a good life, which she probably had, then there is always hope. Also, there is still a chance for your brother. Andere, always hope. If you don't hope, then it can't happen, or it will at least be harder for it to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Veck wrote:
You seriously believe that committing suicide will stop your mother from getting into heaven?

In terms of Christianity , it's somewhere in there, that there's this place in hell for people who committed suicide. Something about how they threw away the life that god gave them.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:49 pm 
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I think most Christians have accepted that some of the views in the bible are a tad outdated now. Such as the ones about women not being allowed to speak in church or you being allowed to keep slaves.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:39 pm 
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Generalno1 wrote:
Veck wrote:
You seriously believe that committing suicide will stop your mother from getting into heaven?

In terms of Christianity , it's somewhere in there, that there's this place in hell for people who committed suicide. Something about how they threw away the life that god gave them.


You are thinking of Dante's Inferno where the those who gave up their own lives are forever forced to live in bleeding trees that have their branches broken daily to remind them of their stupidity.


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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:08 pm 
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That's harsh. But, like Veck said, the Bible is a bit outdated. In the Old Testament, God calls for revenge, but in the New Testament, he calls for forgiveness. Andere, I'm sure she'll be in Heaven right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:19 am 
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I think religion as a whole tad outdated, no offense, Andere, I respect your religious beliefs.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:28 am 
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Ans what can replace it? Nothing that we know of at this moment.

Science? Bah. It has been around since before the ancient Greeks and I still do not see science leading us to any type of salvation other than our own doom through our own destructive tendencies.

Political idealisms? Nationalist radicalism? Personality cults? Well Ave Caesar! for that has been around since the dawn of time and the politicians, merchants and intellectuals still squabble over power and wealth and knowledge, respectively.

Tell me what can replace religion for humanity's soul other than its peer failures?

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:47 am 
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Nothing? Who says Religion needs a replacement? It started when man needed a way to explain things they could not comprehend. The first gods were probably told by some ancient bard around a campfire. The idea of an afterlife was probably made by some cavewoman soothing a child who lost his brother to wild elephants during the hunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Religion and Philosophy
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:03 am 
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Mindrifter wrote:
dkjestrup wrote:
Why do we need to have a soul? To imply that we have a soul doesn't make much sense, as we have literally no evidence to suggest such thing as a soul exists. The burden of proof would be to prove that it exists. Why would science need to be able to explain something that as far as we can tell, doesn't exist?


I'm sorry? To tell you the truth, I can't find much sense if we don't have a soul. If we don't have a soul then how can we love, how can we put someone before ourself. If we didn't have a soul and we were just living to continue our species or our genes, then why would anyone ever sacrifice their needs for somebody else's?

Chemical reactions in our brain.

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