General Discussion

BetaB17 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:56 am

So legendary.. Not even a Master Ball could capture it

Wolfborn · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:21 am

Kerr wrote:

I just checked the post I made outside General and wow. That was a name I didn't expect to see.

Wow, indeed. I'm kind of in awe...

VirtualWeasel · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:28 am

Kerr wrote:

No, the real question is are you going to eat the mysterious food that just appeared in your house? Because eating magic food is like a one way ticket to the Otherworld.

You expect a man not to eat a magical Twix that spawned itself into his fridge? Are you mad?

Lord Timster · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:13 pm

Am I the only one slightly disappointed that Kerr is not warning us all about how a proliferation of increasingly homogenised algorithms could lead to a stand alone complex?

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:00 pm

Kerr wrote:

You say movies don't scare you but I'm pretty sure you watched The Terminator as a child and have been terrified of robots even since. Because every time A.I comes up you start talking about how Skynet is going to kill us all. It must have scared you more than Darby of Gill and The Little People scared me. Which let me tell you as a child who lives in the Irish countryside was quite a lot.

I just checked the post I made outside General and wow. That was a name I didn't expect to see.

I have seen the Terminator many times and probably was a teen when I first saw it. It is not because of fear but because...

I'm the Freaking Sheodovah! I make references because well, I have nothing better to do and am not in fact, part cyborg trying to misguide people by stating the obvious joke which goes unnoticed then everyone ends up computing pie for the next billion years.

Avron the S'wit · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:42 pm

Wolfborn wrote:

Kerr wrote:

I just checked the post I made outside General and wow. That was a name I didn't expect to see.

Wow, indeed. I'm kind of in awe...

Well now. Even I have to fulfill my insatiable need to discuss TES somehow. All these years later, I figure it isn't just a passing phase. Alas! :wink:

Which is crazy to think. I've been playing this series since...my undergraduate days. And that was a little over a decade ago. Which is also crazy to think...

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:11 pm

Kerr wrote:

But yeah I think algorithms are very interesting, especially how they can perpetuate the same discriminatory behaviors and biases as the people/societies that make them.

Yeah. I think the bigger problem here is that whilst we can at least - as people - make some sort of effort to eliminate our biases, algorithms trained on us can't engage in that sort of conscious decision making. I'm not really in the know about this stuff but I've seen a few papers purporting to build extensions to algorithms to lower their scores on the likes of the implicit bias test, so I guess we'll see how it develops.

This, one would imagine, should be not too difficult enough to eliminate once we know what we need to eliminate* - though figuring out what our societal biases are might be the more difficult bit in approaching societal biases, so.

---

* If we can build self-driving cars surely we can stop algorithms from prompting: she is to nurse, he said, without the required understanding of the specifics of either technology for his opinion to mean anything.

Kerr wrote:

Is "yous" as a plural of you just an Irish thing? Because I use it, Velvet uses it, most people I know use it. And you know it's a good word, makes sense, should keep using it. But do yous use yous?

I've asked this on the internet a few times and I'm pretty sure it's just an Irish thing. Find it bizarre that people use alternatives like 'ye' and just-'you', though.

---

Oh and hi, Avron. It's nice to see you again.

Lord Timster · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:52 pm

'Yous' and 'youse' do occasionally appear in England. Normally only used when people are trying to be deliberately archaic - a bit like saying 'it be yonder' instead of 'it is over there'.

I will say that anyone out there really interested in AIs could well just jump in and try writing one. Small AIs are totally doable with even basic-level programming skills/tools, imo. I have spent the last couple of months working on one - they're not 'easy to do' by any means but it is fascinating watching how they work. Also looks totally epic on your CV.

Kerr · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:22 pm

Hey Avron, nice to hear to from you. Haven't seen you here since 2014. Even if it's just a flying visit it's nice to see you pop in.

Velvet wrote:

Yeah. I think the bigger problem here is that whilst we can at least - as people - make some sort of effort to eliminate our biases, algorithms trained on us can't engage in that sort of conscious decision making. I'm not really in the know about this stuff but I've seen a few papers purporting to build extensions to algorithms to lower their scores on the likes of the implicit bias test, so I guess we'll see how it develops.

Honestly seeing big tech companies realize the importance of social sciences does give me a sense of satisfaction after I see people try to dismiss their value.

Lord Timster wrote:

Am I the only one slightly disappointed that Kerr is not warning us all about how a proliferation of increasingly homogenised algorithms could lead to a stand alone complex?

Now I'm slightly disappointed in myself.

Lord Timster wrote:

I will say that anyone out there really interested in AIs could well just jump in and try writing one. Small AIs are totally doable with even basic-level programming skills/tools, imo. I have spent the last couple of months working on one - they're not 'easy to do' by any means but it is fascinating watching how they work. Also looks totally epic on your CV.

"I made an AI on twitter which has been operating perfectly for years..."
"That sounds great, you're just the kind of applicant we're looking for."
"Yeah, every time someone says 'Pokeman' on twitter it replies by telling them 'It's Pokemon not Pokeman.'"
"On second thought we're going to punch you in the dick."

MARS · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:32 pm

I just got caught up in a seinfieldian conversation about whether or not the conversation I interjected in for being too seinfieldian was actually a seinfieldian conversation and now Jerry and Kramer are arguing about keys in my head nonstop.

Hi Avron, nice to see you!

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:51 pm

Hey Avron! Welcome back! Unless you're leaving again then I shall blame that no good M'aiq. Lously M'aiq! What has he got that makes him so great?

TES, i suspect the regulars have an average of 5-10 years of it on here.

Is it me or has Mars had her points reduced? Swore she had a lot more then 5000.

Lously memory.

MARS · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:15 pm

No, I never had more than 5000.

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:17 pm

Lord Timester wrote:

I will say that anyone out there really interested in AIs could well just jump in and try writing one.

This is actually my project for the Summer, I'm just not sure what I want to do. Any pointers would actually be great; I don't really have any specific interests here - I just want to be able to understand it and I'll do that better through a project)

(I have a goodish understanding of supervised statistical learning and I'm competent at programming for statistics [i.e. in R] if it helps).

Cassandra · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:24 am

Well, I made it through Scream without too much hassle. Though I must say, I've never been happier to be a socially awkward weeb.

Spoiler:

Wolfborn · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:30 am

Avron the S'wit wrote:

Wolfborn wrote:

Kerr wrote:

I just checked the post I made outside General and wow. That was a name I didn't expect to see.

Wow, indeed. I'm kind of in awe...

Well now. Even I have to fulfill my insatiable need to discuss TES somehow. All these years later, I figure it isn't just a passing phase. Alas! :wink:

I've been quoted by Avron. I feel honored. :mrgreen:

Welcome back, Avron. I may be a (relative) newcomer here, and I don't post much, but I lurked here for a long time before registering and I've read through enough old posts to be familiar with your august history in these forums. Nice to see you posting again!

leroybrown · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:51 pm

Cassandra wrote:

I've never been happier to be a socially awkward weeb.

If it makes you feel any better your generation may be slowly taking over the world and you wont have to worry about awkwardness because everyone will suffer this disease. That being said I think lots of folks who grow up feeling socially awkward eventually get over it as times go on (how it worked for me). People change drastically over the high school years.

I feel confident in social situations but I don't 'get' internet behaviour. I mean I do to some extent but I just don't respect/acknowledge it because it doesn't translate to real life scenarios.

Velvet LeChance · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:05 pm

leroybrown wrote:

I feel confident in social situations but I don't 'get' internet behaviour.

I'm the same. I've always been confident when it comes to real-life social situations but I never really feel like I know how to act on the internet.

Weird how that works.

Lord Timster · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:55 pm

Velvet LeChance wrote:

This is actually my project for the Summer, I'm just not sure what I want to do. Any pointers would actually be great; I don't really have any specific interests here - I just want to be able to understand it and I'll do that better through a project)

AI stuff:

Well if you're doing this as more of an exercise, rather than out of interest, then tbh I'd probably suggest searching around on the web for an AI tutorial and following that. Something like hand-written number recognition would be fine. You just run a neural network against a big wad of learning data for a while then see if it can successfully recognise digits. Not especially astonishing but it would show you how a basic AI works (or not, as the case may be).

Personally I find game-playing AIs a bit more interesting to interact with. Noughts and crosses, Connect 4, anything not too complex will do. If you can fully automate the AIs playing games against each other you can start using "Genetic Algorithms" where the most successful AIs get to pass on their 'Decision-Making DNA' onto the next generation of AIs, in theory 'evolving' better and better AIs with each generation. That sort of thing also appeals to the 'Civilization/God-game' player in me. I am getting my AIs to learn how to play a 'token-flipping' mini-game from a board game - I'm starting out with a very basic cut-down version of the gameplay and if all goes well then I will gradually add in gameplay elements, rules and options bit by bit and see where it goes.

AI projects can get as big and complex as you want them to, so something interesting, interactive and/or actually useful would imo be a necessity to keep ones attention through anything much bigger than a basic neural net.

In terms of what to use, normally I'd say:
(a) what you have experience with
(b) what you are likely to use in your career

So if that's stats / data analysis (?) then my first thoughts would be either Excel and Visual Basic (VBA) or Microsoft SQL Server. Me I am using SQL Server 2008, with a bit of Java, for my AI.

tbh I don't know R at all but based on a quick nose around the web it does look as if it's got the functionality you'd need for an AI. Read from a data source, looped and conditional code, procedures, functions, reports and then write back out to a database when you're done. It certainly sounds like it could do the job.

^For AI supporters only. Human Resistance fanboys go away. :p

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:58 pm

I have no social life. I think I've beaten both of you.

........

I'll be staring at the evening sky whilst sad volin music plays, if anyone needs me.

That said, if i knew how to play the volin and had a volin, I would play it whilst looking at the evening sky. I think I would not be trusted with a volin though. The temptation to be sarcastic with it would be great.

And sod AI. Team er...... foot cup mouse will kick AI's backside!

Unless they figure that a hybrid of Da Arnold and Stalloen is key to conquering Hollywood but that would be a good thing. Unless it nicks 40 cakes.

Cassandra · **Posted:** Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:43 pm

leroybrown wrote:

If it makes you feel any better your generation may be slowly taking over the world and you wont have to worry about awkwardness because everyone will suffer this disease. That being said I think lots of folks who grow up feeling socially awkward eventually get over it as times go on (how it worked for me). People change drastically over the high school years.

Thanks.

Most of the time, I honestly don't mind. But I'll keep on trying to get better, for those times when it actually does matter.

leroybrown wrote:

I feel confident in social situations but I don't 'get' internet behaviour. I mean I do to some extent but I just don't respect/acknowledge it because it doesn't translate to real life scenarios.

Is there special internet behaviour? It didn't ever cross my mind... Hopefully I don't offend people too much.

MARS · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 3:11 am

Wow. I just had a nightmare in which I managed to die offscreen, and it didn't end after my death. What's more it was in the form of a movie, complete with opening and closing credits, and sequel hook.

leroybrown · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 10:54 am

Velvet LeChance wrote:

leroybrown wrote:

I feel confident in social situations but I don't 'get' internet behaviour.

I'm the same. I've always been confident when it comes to real-life social situations but I never really feel like I know how to act on the internet.

I should have phrased that differently (hopefully I didn't sound too harsh). I understand internet socialization it just trips me up. I think what it comes down to is while online you'll come across all kinds of people. There's a type of a culture which revolves around the web world. I obviously participate in it hell we all do to some extent but there's a point where I draw the line.

Cassandra wrote:

Thanks.

Most of the time, I honestly don't mind. But I'll keep on trying to get better, for those times when it actually does matter.

Obviously I don't know you but if someone put a gun to my head and said evaluate Cassandras social prowess I'd say you're okay. The fact that you admit being a bit awkward and you don't mind is partially why I say this. Having social skills takes work and everybody of all age groups at all points in life have socially awkward moments. You just gotta be cool with that. This is a lesson I eventually learned in my later 20's so that's why I say kudos to you.

For others reading this (I know all you [&@%!] are socially awkward and looking for advice) I do think self evaluation is beneficial but only in a very small degree. Never, ever, ever beat yourself up and think 'what's wrong with me, why am I so wierd/etc.' It can be hard not to beat yourself up but it's important that you try not to.

Cassandra wrote:

Is there special internet behaviour? It didn't ever cross my mind... Hopefully I don't offend people too much.

Like I said earlier I should have said this differently. Don't worry about offending folks haha that's something I try to avoid. I live in a culture where messing with people is the norm - you gotta have thick skin. This can come across really [censored] on the web so I try to just speak plainly and leave my personality out of it to some extent (unless your screen name is betasomething or mars or whatever, whoever has a screen name like that is clearly a giant [&@%!]).

Regarding what I mean as internet behaviour, that's somewhat of a text wall. It's no big deal and it's not a touchy subject but I'm feeling too lazy to post about that now. Maybe later?

BetaB17 · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 11:02 am

Quote:

(unless your screen name is betasomething or mars or whatever, whoever has a screen name like that is clearly a giant [&@%!]).

He's right you know. (Me and Mars are total [&@%!])

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 12:10 pm

It's a trap! Do not agree or they will ban you before you can say but. I see through your trap! And I raise you an elemental card.It does +9 damage to your trap but summons the kraken. Well, bugger.

MARS · **Posted:** Mon May 01, 2017 12:46 pm

BetaB17 wrote:

Quote:

(unless your screen name is betasomething or mars or whatever, whoever has a screen name like that is clearly a giant [&@%!]).

He's right you know. (Me and Mars are total [&@%!])

Yep. I'm a total [&@%!] and you all love me.

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