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Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
https://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40007		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ebethil [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
I've tried to play the Daggerfall version I downloaded of UESP and ran into a problem with it. I started heavily training my destruction skill, trying to get more uses out of my spells, and eventually realized I had hit 102 points. I was confused, kept training a little further, sure enough, it kept going up.

According to the website skills are supposed to cap at 95 except for one skill you can get to 100.

Alright, I figured this must be some kind of fix that is part of the updated version, and it was put in there to enable leveling higher or using better spells or something, I mean there must be a reason for it

I headed to the spellmaker to create a spell was was appropriately powerful for my Destruction skill sitting at 114, and here everything started falling apart. As I started adding more damage the cost of the spell was counting down into the negative. Regardless of how ludicrously powerful of a spell I made, the final casting cost would always show at 5 magicka only. AoE 100% disintegrate, 60 seconds of 100-100+100pL damage, whatever I entered, the resulting spell cost 5 mana to cast. Of course the costs to create such a spell were still exorbitant, but it's not like you can't come up with 50k gold in this game.

So I basically gave up on playing at this point. There was just no more point to it. I was walking around with 60 casts of instant death to anything, and had barely hit level 10. Spellmaking also had no appeal when the only thing that limits what you can create is money.

Is there any way to get the polished up version of Daggerfall without the skill cap removed? I don't want godmode spells. I want to play the game somewhat as intended, just without all the bugs.
Author:  Crawldragon [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
The version I downloaded was from the Elder Scrolls website and I haven't had that many problems from it :wat: The odd crash caused by a buggy quest, but nothing that couldn't be solved with good save file discipline. It came with the patch for Daggerfall 1.07.213, which is the latest official version. I haven't really screwed around with the spell maker yet (should get around to it) but I've never even heard of a problem like you're describing. It's possible that you've encountered some kind of one-time error or exploit that's corrupting your skill system. Have you tried running FIXSAVE?
Author:  Ebethil [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
I don't know, all I was doing was training my destruction skill and suddenly it went above 100. I googled the issue and the only thing that came up of someone encountering the same had an answer of someone saying this is a mod that's simply rolled into the UESP version. (Google "Daggerfall skills above 100")

So what's going on with that? I'm not exactly keen on playing for a couple hours again only to end up in the same situation of my character completely derailing because of some silly hack of the skill system. Has nobody else encountered this at all?

I mean if you're playing, do your skills ever go above 100?
Author:  Crawldragon [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
The official release on the Elder Scrolls website doesn't include any third-party mods. You shouldn't have a problem with it.
Author:  Ebethil [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
But it also doesn't have any of the fixes does it?
Author:  Crawldragon [ Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
It plays well enough for me, but whatever. If you absolutely must have some (if not all) of the unofficial fixes, they're still available on UESP's Daggerfall files page. On the subject of the UESP downloads, I took a peek and it says on that page that the unofficial fixes and patches are optional in the installer. Are you sure you can't just re-install and deactivate the patch you don't want?
Author:  Ebethil [ Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
That was actually my first thought, but I can't figure out which one of them is screwing with the skill caps. The documentation doesn't seem to say anywhere that this or that mod raises the skill cap to 200, only one single source I've turned up makes that claim.

I figured I could get some kind of "official answer" on this board from someone who actually knows exactly what's in the UESP version, but nothing.
Author:  legoless [ Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Ebethil wrote:
I figured I could get some kind of "official answer" on this board from someone who actually knows exactly what's in the UESP version, but nothing.

You might want to ask here, it's more frequented by those who might know.
Author:  Ebethil [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Do I have to make another account to post there?
Author:  Chizmad [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Ebethil wrote:
Do I have to make another account to post there?


Yes you do, as its a different system. Not everyone who edits pages posts in the forums. And vice versa.
Author:  AKB [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Actually, we allow anonymous editing. You can edit leave a message on that page with or without an account.
Author:  yagiza [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
No version of Daggerfall has upper limit of skill value.
Right now, my character have 310% of Hand-to-Hand (with 32-63 damage), Backstabbing 244%, Stealth 280%, Archery 186%, Dodging 236%, Critical Strike 297% and so on.
Author:  Ebethil [ Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
yagiza wrote:
No version of Daggerfall has upper limit of skill value.
Right now, my character have 310% of Hand-to-Hand (with 32-63 damage), Backstabbing 244%, Stealth 280%, Archery 186%, Dodging 236%, Critical Strike 297% and so on.


http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Skills

The UESP page on skills does say at the bottom that usually you can only master one skill to 100 while all others become capped at 95.


And if there really is no limit, is the game really supposed to just break entirely when it comes to destruction and allow you to cast any spell with any values at 5 mana?
Author:  yagiza [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Ebethil wrote:
yagiza wrote:
No version of Daggerfall has upper limit of skill value.
Right now, my character have 310% of Hand-to-Hand (with 32-63 damage), Backstabbing 244%, Stealth 280%, Archery 186%, Dodging 236%, Critical Strike 297% and so on.


http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Skills

The UESP page on skills does say at the bottom that usually you can only master one skill to 100 while all others become capped at 95.

That's about natural limits of the skills. Yes, it's true, while you master your skill natural way. But magic can easily break this limit. Once you become a werecreature, all your physical skills (Hand-to-hand, Running, Climbing, Stealth, Swimming, Crilical Strike) increased by 30% (both current and maximum values). For Vampire it's almost the same (just Jumping instead of Swimming).
And every equipped item with "Enhnances skill" feature, increases skill by 15% (both current and maximum values).

Quote:
And if there really is no limit, is the game really supposed to just break entirely when it comes to destruction and allow you to cast any spell with any values at 5 mana?

There's a lot of bugs in Daggerfall. That's why it is called Buggerfall among the fans of TES series. You may experience some problems with game math when your skills are much above 100%.
For example, game crashes when you click on any Thieves Guild member, having Lockpicking much above 100%. Also, when you click on the locked door, interacting in Grab/Talk/Info mode, you may see a random message, which has nothing to do with lockpicking.
Having other skills much above 100% can cause game crash when you click on mombers of other guilds. For example, one of my very high skills (not sure which one) cause game crash when I click on any Knights of the Dragon guild member (include Lord Bridwell).
So, your "all spells by 5 mana" doesn't look like a bug at all. But if it bothers you, just get rid of the items, which enhance your Destruction skill, allowing you to have it above 100%.
Author:  Ebethil [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
I didn't have an item that enhanced my Destruction skill though, I just cast destruction spells in a tavern to train up my skill so I could go into a dungeon without having to rest after every other monster. I was just kind of grinding away, not really paying attention, then suddenly I sit at 102% or something. I thought "that's odd" kept going a little further, and it just kept going up.
Author:  yagiza [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Ebethil wrote:
I didn't have an item that enhanced my Destruction skill though, I just cast destruction spells in a tavern to train up my skill so I could go into a dungeon without having to rest after every other monster. I was just kind of grinding away, not really paying attention, then suddenly I sit at 102% or something. I thought "that's odd" kept going a little further, and it just kept going up.

That sounds really strange. Can you share your save, to investigate?
Author:  Ebethil [ Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Hmm, didn't think of that, I dumped the entire folder when I tried to install a different version, but then realized there was no other version with fixes. Durp.
Author:  MrFlibble [ Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
Ebethil wrote:
I headed to the spellmaker to create a spell was was appropriately powerful for my Destruction skill sitting at 114, and here everything started falling apart. As I started adding more damage the cost of the spell was counting down into the negative. Regardless of how ludicrously powerful of a spell I made, the final casting cost would always show at 5 magicka only. AoE 100% disintegrate, 60 seconds of 100-100+100pL damage, whatever I entered, the resulting spell cost 5 mana to cast. Of course the costs to create such a spell were still exorbitant, but it's not like you can't come up with 50k gold in this game.

Actually I think that the casting cost being fixed at 5 magicka points is the norm if you have 100% skill in the respective school of magic.

Also I vaguely remember that after some official patch the max cap for one skill was increased to 105%? but I'm not sure on that.
Author:  yagiza [ Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
MrFlibble wrote:
Also I vaguely remember that after some official patch the max cap for one skill was increased to 105%? but I'm not sure on that.

No, that's not true.
Author:  Igneous [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Skills train past 100 points, spellmaker breaks
I got this same issue, though it is not Destruction, but the simple and frequently used Running Skill. I used the inclusive EXE package that has a lot of bug fixs and gameplay mods available here as I am running Windows 10 and...the older pack I just couldn't get working.

I am sitting at 107% Running...and I just frankly would rather have it set at 95% and not deal with any weird bugging negative integer or overflow errors that may come with SUPER high skill values....plus I don't want to be moving so damn fast I can't really see where I am going.

I have activated "Cheat Mode" to find Quest objectives but Deactivate it afterwards. I have tried running "FixSave" and that doesn't seem to do much. :/

So I am just wanting this to stop growing in value...

Thanks
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