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 Post subject: DFBIOGFIX [Patch BIOG files]
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:38 pm 
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Layman
Layman

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Iliac-Bay
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Online, Redguard, Battlespire
Platform: PC
UESPoints: 0
UPDATE: 10/11/2015

DFBI0GFIX v1.0

Install: Just override the existing files in the ARENA2 folder.

Changes:
Spoiler:
# BIOG00T0.TXT {Mages}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is incorrectly associated with the
skill 'Orcish'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Jumping'.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.

* #7 a) The answer "Rabbit" is incorrectly associated with the skill
'Orcish', even if it's indicate athleticism.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Jumping' as it is in the other
original files with the same question; it makes more sense.

* #7 c) The answer "Quicksilver" is incorrectly associated with the skill
'Resoration', even if it's indicate quickness.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Running' as it is in the other
original files with the same question; it makes more sense.


# BIOG01T0.TXT {Spellsword}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG02T0.TXT {Battlemage}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG03T0.TXT {Sorcerer}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG04T0.TXT {Healer}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG05T0.TXT {Nightblade}

* #7 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.


# BIOG06T0.TXT {Bard}

* #4 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #6 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG07T0.TXT {Burglar}

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.

* #7 a) The question "Where is your expertise in combat?" has the answer
"Short-bladed weapons" which gives you 'Iron Gauntlets' instead of a short-
bladed weapon.
**Changed the outcome to 'Iron Short Sword'.

* #7 b) The question "Where is your expertise in combat?" has the answer
"Hand-to-hand combat" which gives you 'Iron Cuirass' instead of help for
Hand-to-hand combat.
**Changed the outcome to 'Iron Gauntlets'.


# BIOG08T0.TXT {Rogue}

* #1 b) The question "You have a certain degree of training with ___." has
the answer "Hand-to-hand combat" which gives you 'Silver Cuirass' instead
of help for Hand-to-hand combat.
**Changed the outcome to 'Iron Gauntlets'.


# BIOG10T0.TXT {Thief}

* #4 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.

* #8 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.


# BIOG14T0.TXT {Ranger}

* #1 c) The answer "Axe fighting" is associated with 'Iron Gauntlets' instead
of an appropriate weapon which fits to the skill.
**Changed it to 'Iron Axe'.


# BIOG16T0.TXT {Warrior}

* #1 f) The answer "Longblade" is associated with 'Iron Kite Shield' instead
of an appropriate weapon which fits to the skill.
**Changed it to 'Iron Claymore' like in BIOG15T0.TXT.

* #9 The answers are messed up as the associated values of the different
skills are strangely -2.. That means that e.g. the answer g) "the primitive
Centaurs" is associated with the skill 'Daedric' and answer e) "the infernal
Daedra" with the skill 'Dragonish' etc.
**Changed every answer to his respective skill; Added to each the appropriate
value (+2).


---- O R I G I N A L P O S T ---------------------------------

Dear Daggerfall Enthusiasts,

I will make it short, I love Daggerfall since 2001, I am initiator and project leader of the German translation project and felt like to do more than that. As I have no programming skills, I decided to work intensively on the BIOG-files. I went through all 216 questions and checked them for errors, inconsistencies and wrong values. At this point I would like to thank everyone who worked on finding out the different variables. It was more than helpful and the time consuming work was a little bit easier at the end.

To the point. You will never guess how much things you can find if you look carefully ;) But hey, we weren't Daggerfall experts if we wouldn't love the work. There are some things which are clear (e.g. you get a gauntlet, but the answer says you will get a cuirass; an archer gets a left pauldron instead of a shortbow, etc.), but some are a little bit more tricky, because the outcome will affect the game balancing from the beginning on intensively. For that reason I want to get your expert opinion on some details. Hopefully we can do that together and create well balanced and complete BIOG-files. Most of the time the questions will be the same, but sometimes there are small differencies. E.g. the thief classes are partly completely the same, just with some minor changes.

For your notice: To really reach most of the Daggerfall Enthusiasts, I cross-posted this to dfworkshop, uesp and xlengine. I will be active and watch on every platform and "try" to keep every thread straight and updated.

Let's do it!

Goal: To update, balance and fix errors in the Biography files (BIOGXXT0.txt) to have the best and well-balanced files for future use.

I differ in the following between factual errors and discrepancies. I will start with the discrepancies, because we can make them straight to some main points. Please share your thoughts with me.

Discrepancies:
  • In the questions "You are friendlier than most with ___." there are orcs missing. Orcish is nevertheless a language skill, which is why I prefer to add them constantly to the question like "the barbarous Orcs".
  • To bows in general, there should be added some arrows, otherwise it has no use at the beginning.
  • In BIOG01 and BIOG02 we have the questions: "After the College of Destruction, what school of magic have you been studying the second longest?" - In the first file you get Destruction +8 and for the magic skill you choose +3; In the other one you get +12 and for the choice +6. I would like to have both questions with similar outcome. I prefer personally the +12 for both. Which makes of course the max. level of the character smaller.
  • A similar problem in BIOG13T0 with the questions: "Besides the bow and arrow, you are best at ___."; the answers are the other weapon skills. They get each +9. Would change that to the same value we will have for the question before.
  • If you get a weapon or any other equipment you have most of the time iron equipment. But sometimes you'll get elven or steel material. So for one question you can get a bow, axe and tanto, but the outcome is iron bow, a steel axe and an elven tanto. Which makes it of course easier for the the player which takes the elven tanto. Things like the ebony dagger shouldn't be changed, of course. But if there is in the answer no material given we have three possibilities.
    --First: Change everything to Iron.
    --Second: Keep it that inconsistent as it is.
    --Third: Decide on every question individually.
    --> As I am currently writing this, I just have to remind ourselves, that there are class restrictions for some materials, which we should double check before changing a file (didn't do that yet).

Changes:

The other big aspect are the changes. Some changes are clear and will be changed to 99,9% and other ones I would like to discuss with you. Starting with the one we will have to change (probably) for sure.

  • Uniblab did fix one error in BIOG00T0 in #3 orcish to jumping, but forgot the rest of the file, the same error occurs in #7. Will fix that there to. (Notice: BIOG00T0 was eventually the first BIOG file created, as there are some strange mistakes, which got be fixed in the later ones by the devs.)
  • There are some questions like e.g. "In gratitude for services rendered, the Emperor gave you ___." where a choice of answer is some kind of gold pieces. Every time when there is the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get actually just 200 gold instead of 200+. I will change that to 250 for all answers like that.
  • The question: "As a child, your nickname was ___." with the answer "Quicksilver" was changed to 'restoration' in one question --> will change that back to 'running' as the name indicates speed and running is the right associated skill.
  • The question: "As much as you are able, you ___." with the answer "trespass" is associated with "lockpicking" --> will change that to 'stealth' as it fits better.
  • BIOG16T0 the question: "You are friendlier than most with ___." the skill values are all +2, which means "a. the savage Harpies" gets the dragon language instead of the Harpy language skill etc. --> change that according to their associated skill which means -2 to all. (honestly no idea how they did not find this one as the same question in every other file is correctly associated with the appropriate skill.)
  • The question: "In between formal study, you spent your time ___." with the answer "practicing acrobatics" will be changed entirely to 'climbing', instead of the skill 'running'. Acrobatics has more to do with climbing than with running (which would be more athletic).
  • A lot of changes for items - best example BIOG07T0 #7 which is: "Where in your expertise in combat?" the answers and what you get:
    a. Short-bladed weapons (Iron Gauntlet -> Iron Short Sword)
    b. Hand-to-hand combat (Iron Cuirass -> Iron Gauntlet)
    c. Axe fighting (Iron Axe)
    d. Blunt weapons (Iron ...)
    e. Archery (Iron Left Pauldron -> Iron Short Bow)
    --> obvious things will be changed.

And now changes which need more opinions than just my own:

  • The question: "In between formal study, you spent your time ___." with the answer "sparring" is sometimes associated with the skill "hand-to-hand" or "critical strike". I would change that to one of these possibilities to make it consistent. I prefer to change it to "hand-to-hand", but we could also differ between the classes.
  • The question: "Of all disagreeable types, you have the most personal hatred for ___." there are different answers. I would like to add in every occurrence the same answer possibilities. Which would be:
    a. Sanctimonious priests
    b. Diabolic wizards
    c. Stupid peasants
    d. Power-mad robber barons
    e. Immoral assassins
    f. Greedy Merchants
  • The question: "You are most fond of using ___." with the answer "archery" in BIOG14T0 is associated with 3x Steel Arrows and 1x Silver Arrow, which I would change to Iron Short Bow, 6x Iron Arrow like in other questions. Without a bow the arrows are useless. And iron material like in all the other answers.
  • The question: "Since childhood, you have saved ___." in BIOG14T0 is a bit tricky. To every answer there will be an additional Short Bow + 8 Arrows, but that doesn't fit with the answers (100 gold pieces; a book; a dozen arrows; a cuirass). For the answer "a dozen arrows" you'll get 20x arrows. I am not sure if we should keep it, or if you would think it fits in because it's an archer. But I do not like to have discrepancies between the answer and the outcome. What do you guys think?

So far these are all the changes I found. If you know something else, or you think some questions have to be added with some answers (like with my orcish proposal) tell us and we can decide together on the case. I will try to keep the first post updated as good as I can. It really was a very time consuming work, and it's a some kind of a proud feeling to show the progress to the public. I originally planned to make a (cheat) GDoc File with every answer and the outcome (the UESP page about Background Questions are not entirely correct). Maybe I will do this at some point. But right now you just have to believe me about the values and the associated changes. I tried and will try to do it as transparent as possible. I will include an in-depth readme-file once I finished with the editing of the files, too. It's fascinating how much work you can put in such a "small" project :)

I love to hear from you and your thoughts on the changes.

Bye Deep


Last edited by Deepfighter on Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Modification BIOG files
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:58 am 
Offline
Apprentice
Apprentice

Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:38 pm
Posts: 142
UESPoints: 1
Hello.

I would probably suggest to make a clear distinction between fixes of obvious errors and balance changes, and maybe create two sets of files, with the changes being an optional modification.

BTW, IIRC there are some fixes/tweaks of the biography files already, do you intend to incorporate them or make your own change list?

As for answers that yield a different and/or unexpected outcome (e.g. wrong item), I remember that I had a character once for which I picked a silver staff as an item, but it was not in the inventory when the game started. However, when I red the actual text of the character's biography it was mentioned at some point that the staff was broken in a fight when that character cast a spell. Perhaps at least some of the other inconsistencies can be solved that way?

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 Post subject: Re: Modification BIOG files
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:34 am 
Offline
Layman
Layman

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Iliac-Bay
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Online, Redguard, Battlespire
Platform: PC
UESPoints: 0
Hey MrFibble,

nice to hear from you. Thanks for your response as well! :)

When I wrote the above post I was like posting most of the things I found. In the end I will of course differ between actual fixes of obvious errors and will do the balance changes (if at all) separately. So the first version which will be out (probably) in the next days will just fix the obvious errors. On this ground we can take a look if there are other things which have to be changed. I do a very transparent work on this, so every change is double documented (which why it take so long).

You mentioned some fixes which are already done for the biography files. I don't know of any, except for the BIOG00T0.TXT fix (in the patch area of the uesp), which just alters the error in one question. But this error happens twice in this file, which is missed in this mentioned modification. Anyway BIOG00T0.TXT has some more errors which haven't been changed yet. So I approach for a more complete fix of all the BIOG-files. If there are any, of course I would like to incorporate them; otherwise my modification stays for itself. I actually wanted, that we are doing it all together (therefor this forum post) to get Daggerfall close to where it should be. That's the goal.

As for your last paragraph I not totally agree with you. I want to change as less as possible to the original intended files, just obvious mistakes. To change the biography texts in the TEXT.RSC to comply with the BIOG inconsistencies feels like a step to big. Your mentioned example just gives a hint how careful we have to be, to change any of the item stuff. Therefor I will maybe just note it out, and for another version we have to decide to implement it, or not. Some testing will be needed for sure.

There are things where I am very unsure though about the intention. For example - If a burglar get in the question "Where is your expertise in combat" for the answer "Archery" a Iron Left Pauldron, or for the answer "Short-bladed weapons" Iron Gauntlets instead of a Iron Short Sword, I am not sure how does comply at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Modification BIOG files
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:12 pm 
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Apprentice
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Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:38 pm
Posts: 142
UESPoints: 1
Deepfighter wrote:
As for your last paragraph I not totally agree with you. I want to change as less as possible to the original intended files, just obvious mistakes. To change the biography texts in the TEXT.RSC to comply with the BIOG inconsistencies feels like a step to big.

I did not suggest to change the biography texts at all (now I've noticed that my last sentence in the previous post is indeed ambiguous). I merely noted that some discrepancies between an answer given by the player during character creation and e.g. the starting inventory may be explained in the already existing character biography (which I admit I did not always read :)). So for example if an answer implies that the PC gets an item but it is not in the inventory (or another starting item is added instead) this might not be a bug but intended behaviour which does not need fixing. However since did not test extensively of how the answers correlate with the starting stats and inventory, I can't tell a lot except for that one example I remember.

I totally agree that obvious errors have top priority in fixing, and I trust that you have already done exhaustive research upon which to build the project.

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 Post subject: DFBIOGFIX v1.0
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:26 am 
Offline
Layman
Layman

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Iliac-Bay
ES Games: Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Online, Redguard, Battlespire
Platform: PC
UESPoints: 0
Nice timing Mr. Fibble, yesterday I was able to proudly announce the first version. :)

DFBI0GFIX v1.0

Install: Just override the existing files in the ARENA2 folder.

Changes:
Spoiler:
# BIOG00T0.TXT {Mages}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is incorrectly associated with the
skill 'Orcish'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Jumping'.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.

* #7 a) The answer "Rabbit" is incorrectly associated with the skill
'Orcish', even if it's indicate athleticism.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Jumping' as it is in the other
original files with the same question; it makes more sense.

* #7 c) The answer "Quicksilver" is incorrectly associated with the skill
'Resoration', even if it's indicate quickness.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Running' as it is in the other
original files with the same question; it makes more sense.


# BIOG01T0.TXT {Spellsword}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG02T0.TXT {Battlemage}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG03T0.TXT {Sorcerer}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG04T0.TXT {Healer}

* #3 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG05T0.TXT {Nightblade}

* #7 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.


# BIOG06T0.TXT {Bard}

* #4 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.

* #6 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.


# BIOG07T0.TXT {Burglar}

* #5 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.

* #7 a) The question "Where is your expertise in combat?" has the answer
"Short-bladed weapons" which gives you 'Iron Gauntlets' instead of a short-
bladed weapon.
**Changed the outcome to 'Iron Short Sword'.

* #7 b) The question "Where is your expertise in combat?" has the answer
"Hand-to-hand combat" which gives you 'Iron Cuirass' instead of help for
Hand-to-hand combat.
**Changed the outcome to 'Iron Gauntlets'.


# BIOG08T0.TXT {Rogue}

* #1 b) The question "You have a certain degree of training with ___." has
the answer "Hand-to-hand combat" which gives you 'Silver Cuirass' instead
of help for Hand-to-hand combat.
**Changed the outcome to 'Iron Gauntlets'.


# BIOG10T0.TXT {Thief}

* #4 a) For the answer "Over 200 gold pieces" you'll get just 200 gold pieces
and not like indicated 200+.
**Changed it to 250 gold pieces.

* #8 c) The answer "practising acrobatics" is next to 'Jumping' and 'Dodging'
inconsistent associated with the skill 'Running'.
**Changed it to the appropriate skill 'Climbing' like in BIOG00T0.TXT.


# BIOG14T0.TXT {Ranger}

* #1 c) The answer "Axe fighting" is associated with 'Iron Gauntlets' instead
of an appropriate weapon which fits to the skill.
**Changed it to 'Iron Axe'.


# BIOG16T0.TXT {Warrior}

* #1 f) The answer "Longblade" is associated with 'Iron Kite Shield' instead
of an appropriate weapon which fits to the skill.
**Changed it to 'Iron Claymore' like in BIOG15T0.TXT.

* #9 The answers are messed up as the associated values of the different
skills are strangely -2.. That means that e.g. the answer g) "the primitive
Centaurs" is associated with the skill 'Daedric' and answer e) "the infernal
Daedra" with the skill 'Dragonish' etc.
**Changed every answer to his respective skill; Added to each the appropriate
value (+2).

A visualized version can be found at the DFWorkshop-Thread (which I can't link to in this forum). It's an overview about changes, and the questions and there outcome, too. You can also write here if you find something new, which can be added. Discussion is still open for everyone on everything. There are still some open points to discuss.

I tried to fix just the obvious mistakes, to keep as original as possible! For further information read the readme.txt in the archive.

Future plans: On the basis of this we are free to rebalance things, or find together other mistakes. A thing I would like to research deeper is the connection between the TEXT.RSC and the BIOG files. Some mistakes could be resolved through the associate biography text in the TEXT.RSC. I would like to make an overview on these things.

Stay tuned!


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