UESP Forums

I do not consider myself nor most of the current mod team over-zealous most of the time. Most of us, in fact, will look the other way when a topic veers off discussion until the point where it gets out of hand.

1. Administrative convenience for non-mods - Could you elaborate on that?
2. The ability for non-mod users to feel they can make significant contributions around the place - They can, have, are, and will. I see every day, every member makes a significant contribution. As many others have said here, it does not matter who you are, but what you say. Relating to this, though, some newer users themselves tend to get a bit overzealous, when they make multiple topics for everything, join all of the clubs, and post everywhere. They are overwhelmed when they try to fit into the community when they just need to realize that, it comes with time. Be yourself, let your true colors shine through, and you will find your place here. Don't try to force your way in, let it happen gradually.
3. A bit of the fun that the forums present - While I have no doubt some people think that many interesting discussions were halted by the Mod Team, it is why we have a General Discussion thread, and the whole General Banter thread as well. Want to discuss something specific? Just bring it up in the General Section.
4. The overall sense that the mods, when acting as mods and not simply users (because you are all wonderful users and people as far as I am concerned), are compassionate humans - We are and try to be kind while doing this, trust me, it's no picnic to constantly do those little tasks. But when the general mass of users start to act like they haven't read the rules, haven't listened to what the Moderators have said in the past, it gets a little frustrating. I hate to sound like someone with that kind of authority (The thought of me acting like a mean teacher gives me the shivers) But sometimes it is necessary.

Again, Duruza, it generally it looks like you go over the top when posting. This is not a bad thing, but it can be viewed as post-flooding and creating topics that seem unnecessary. And again, I.E. in the roleplaying section, you create a feedback thread while there is a sticky topic for it, and when I've already locked another discussion thread. Now, to you it might look like us being strict and mean. To us, it looks like you haven't paid attention to what we're doing and what is generally accepted and unaccepted. When a topic is viewed as unnecessary we lock it because it only leads to spam. But it has always been known that members can PM us with concerns and then we can discuss it. And usually, a lock or merge is usually the best first step to a user correcting their problem.

There is no rule on how active you can be as long as you have something to say. If you "Post-flood" I.E. make one word posts in every thread or giving unhelpful comments in a question thread. If you receive a complaint about being too active from one of the older members and you truly feel your posts were helpful and important , ignore it.

Read my above paragraph, if you are truly making good-content posts, it does not matter how active you are and don't let the older members tell you otherwise.

Mod ‘talk pages' -- Yes, these are called Private Messages.

An ability or platform for users and mods to gain a better understanding of one another and where we all are coming from through suggestions and constructive comments -- Again, never feel afraid to PM us, seriously.

A winding down of the simple ‘lock’ mentality with the advent of a sort of ‘partial lock’ -- Again, I believe that the first step to making your idea better is to start over if you did something incorrect.

Yes, of course we treat you like human beings. And after constant reminding we get frustrated. Implying that we do not treat you like human beings is, frankly, insulting.

...so are you going to be just like Azrock, and stop in evey couple of weeks/months, and complain about how unfairly you are being treated...???

All he's asking for is more communication with the Mods so that he doesn't step on anyone's toes, doesn't feel neglected and can have an idea on how to contribute. I know that sometimes the mods can seem heavy-handed, especially if you're not familiar with them before they became a mod. Also I've gotten PMs saying I was spamming, but nothing else; leading me to find the time in question and see what exactly prompted them to send it in the first place (My forum use is sporadic as of late, so I post, leave, and come back to find said PMs).

Also Jeff, you're not helping and brow-beating/ganging up on newer members could lead to them feeling like they're unwelcomed, some could very well turn into trolls if they feel wronged enough. To use the vernacular 'You've created a monster' in the latter scenario

Agreed. The mod team is in no way acting in an over-zealous manner. One group of users is creating a chat-room like atmosphere, while others would prefer users give a bit more time, thought and heft to their posts; in order for any sort of compromise to be made, the mods must draw a line as to how mindless posts are allowed to be. Plenty of freedom is allowed; examples being that no restrictions have been placed on the number of active roleplays, and threads have only been locked when another place to discuss the topic is available (or when an unfriendly enviroment has been created).

I'm not overly active around here, so this post will most likely have little validity to the majority who read it; I'll continue nonetheless, simply for the purpose of throwing in my two cents. the same rules have stood for a long time, both those said and unsaid. Everyone has a different concept as to what is an acceptable and reasonable post, but, eventually, each member conforms to the community's general attitude (of course, you could argue that the community is always changing - I recognize this argument). That may sound like a perfect way to smother a person's personality, but I wasn't speaking literally; some users are always going to post a lot, or their posts may be a little iffy, but that's fine. There is, however, certain broad criteria that must be met in order to prevent the forum from turning into a chatroom.

The mod team's use of simple one line locks and reminders is perfectly reasonable, as these posts inform a user that they are in the wrong without insulting their personality or quirks. In my opinion, the current mod team has done a fine job of keeping the forum in line while remaining respectful and unintimidating towards all members, and while remaining part of the community itself.

I come back to this place and find threads like this. Maybe the problem is more with the members than the mods, or did you not consider that? Au revoir.

Duruza is simply speaking his mind, which is perfectly ok. However, in all truth, you have been known to create spammish topics, especially in the Morrowind section. And it's just common sense at that point, where if you make three or four threads about the same subject (The Houses Club) it's going a little too far.

When you send PM's to the mods, please consider that your concern is not the only thing on their minds. On top of their own problems, there are a fair share of issues on the forums for them to deal with. If you do not receive a response right away don't feel insulted or feel like the Moderator has ignored you. If you want, just PM a more active mod.

The mods are doing their job, the reason they seem a little strict is because a lot of people are giving them reasons to be strict.

It's needed at this point, many new members are unwilling to learn or make an effort for themselves to figure out what's acceptable and what's not. They're overlly chatty, treating many topics like an IM conversation rather than a Forum Thread.

The mods help and guide you, they do this by showing you what is not OK, by deleting, locking etc. and showing what is OK, with the rules, stickies and making contributive posts.

For instance many of Arch-Mage Matt's posts can give you a good idea of how you should be treating and using this forum, and honestly... The mods would have more time to "be members" and mingle if people needed to be moderated less.

Myself, and other members from the last generation come from a time when the mods were largely inactive and swapped around a lot, and it wasn't that damaging, because we could behave and understood how to post and contribute.

This new generation is extremely hyperactive, even compared to the start of the last. Every new generation starts off a bit over-excited, then usually calms down with a few friendly reminders and watching the oldies post. Your generation isn't doing that.

This means the mods have to be more direct, and moderate the forums more heavily. I believe this problem comes from the announcement of Skyrim causing a flood of new members, which means the new members are starting to outnumber the older ones, which didn't really happen before. This means the new members have less of a good example to follow, and instead learn from each other and promote more problems, not impovement.

It also means more old members are leaving the forums, because of the slight decay in quality.

Moderators need to stay the present course, which isn't even that harsh anyways, in order to help the newbies learn. The oldies need to continue to try and set a good example for the newbies to follow, and the newbies need to stop treating this place like a chatroom, and start understanding that there are rules and standards that need to be followed and kept.

Finally on the subject of groups, it's painfully obvious that newbies are creating and joining them to have a sense of belonging and wanting to feel connected to the community. Perhaps when they calm down and realize they ARE conencted to the community they won't need that crutch anymore.

Oh how I love these threads... so many fond memories




How is he ganging up on him? and if anyone was to do what you said could happen, then they are a complete muppet at the end of the day.

To be honest Duruza, the equivalent of what your doing is walking in to someone's house and trying to paint the walls in rainbow colours. I think a lot of us would rather stick with the beige that we came to love and enjoy in all fairness. In other words, this isn't your own personal playroom, and when people say no to your ideas you really just need to learn that others have there own opinions on your ideas and may just think they aren't suitable.
You don't always get your own way. It's unfortunate, but that is life.

You make it seem like your saying this nicely, but for starters the following is just ridiculously insulting to a person:

You then follow this up by saying "no disrespect meant"... why don't you just scratch out there eyes while your at it with a rusty knife? or spit on there Grandmothers? perhaps you would like to deform there character even more?
The only thing worse then these types of insults to me(the one in your post), is when people put on a veil of false understanding and respect to try and cover them up a bit.


There is such thing as post flooding, and it is bloody horrible. The rules are the rules for good reason, not to make people [&@%!] for a laugh. They have been here since before you, me and nearly all the active forumers. Sure they get tweaked a little, but that is actually to make them clearer because some people can't ever seem to understand basic forum etiquette.
A lot of us members who have been here for a while hate the idea of a chatbox forum which these clubs and threads seem to be pushing towards with there pointlessness. I mean come on, why does anyone need to belong to a club to be named after a beverage anyway? whats next? "what superhero underpants are you?!"
Your actually lucky the moderators haven't locked all the club threads to be honest. You can't exactly have a conversation on this stuff. Which in the end makes it spam.

And another thing:

I feel like I'm treated fine to be honest. If you followed the rules, you wouldn't be in the pickle your in now. For starters you have already broke a rule under the restricted topics section:

Instead, you drag your dirty laundry and complaints against the mods out on to the forums. Something which this forum was severely crippled by before I'll have you know...in fact you do know, because you have read the threads in the archives. So you know it's a bad idea...but you do it anyway?

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I believe all these house clubs are doing is splitting people into factions. And why the hell are they in the post count section anyway? most of the posts in these things are spam.
I think the roleplay was a good idea...but that is the only thing that really needs factions at all, and all you gotta do is post in the rp section and people would join it if they wanted to.
For things like 'share good hlallu/redoran stories'... well I believe there are a fair few threads knocking around with titles like 'Share a good time in Morrowind'. Just make something similar and then people aren't forced to join a club to be involved...some of you are seriously going overboard with this.


Thing is, people like to feel like they belong somewhere..so they join clubs and guilds on there internet forums. It is a way to fit in for a lot of people, and the evidence is all around you. Go on a multiplayer game forum and you will see the sheer desperation of some people to find a sort of 'status' and get accepted in the in-crowd. That is why you get a lot of trolls on multiplayer game forums, because the loudest is looked up to by the people who have no idea where to start.
Nothing is louder then seeing a club which is in a fair few peoples signatures So they go "oh look at that, I can be accepted that way"...even though they would be accepted anyway if they just stuck to the rules and weren't a complete spanner. They would not even worry about clubs if they weren't there.


Or perhaps people need to stop posting pointless crap and one liners? then the mods wouldn't have to repeat themselves constantly

A bit of common sense comes into play on a lot of things. Just because it's not in the rules, doesn't mean it isn't stupid. I like to think of UESP as a mature forum, but that gets difficult at times...

Well then, if most of the time you are satisfied then what is your problem? it happens, you will live. The mods do have other urgent things to attend to, and other forumers to deal with to.


And the reward to the person who speaks the most sense goes to.... *drum roll* the short but sweet posting of:

This again? What do you want, for the forum to be devoid of all moderation? We've already forced the mods to change their line-up twice since I've been here. Asking for a third change to the rules/mods is asking way too much of the forum.

I'm with Veck on this. Just deal with it.

I like a few of the new members, and have no issue with the vast majority of the rest, but that said, many have brought a shocking amount of spam to the forum. The clearest example I can give would be the series of Off-Topic threads we've had: the original thread was created in July of '09 and lasted to the end of November in '10; over 16 months with 802 pages and just over 12000 posts (12024 to be exact). In the 6 months since it was locked, we've gone through two more such threads; one with 54400 posts and the other with a staggering 66645, plus the current General Discussion thread at 4265 at the moment. That's a 1042.17% increase in Off-Topic thread posts in just over 1/3 the time, and most of what I see in there (with a few exceptions) is just spam that serves no purpose but to add to the topic's post count. Further, this trend is rapidly spreading to other sections of the forum, and I'd be worried if the mods weren't being aggressive about this crap. As it stands, I think the mods are doing the job they were selected for quite well,

It wasn't directed at Jeff in particular (Only the "you're not helping"), just an observation that sometimes when new members break rules or make topics that have already been done before (unknowingly) and we need to be somewhat considerate in our approach as to not make new members feel unwelcome, this is more directed at the forum as a whole, not the mods. We have to remember that for new members, everything in fresh/new and just because other members have made similar posts in the past doesn't mean that new members aren't allowed their opinions (This doesn't include direct copy/clone/double threads).

Having said all that I DO NOT like people comparing normal members to Azrock, I don't care how long you've been here, it's uncalled for.

I don't have anything against the mods and I genuinely like that they changed the Off-topic thread (I never felt like I could keep up with it and in the end, I did a little of the spamming just to try and be heard )

Edit: I misread that (You know what they say about "Assume"-ing), I retract the statement

1. No one is insulting anyone here.

2. "Just deal with it" Is the idea you have to go by if you have broken the rules and the Moderators have reacted.

It's all right for us to have discussions like this from time to time, because it helps everyone - moderators, members, and such - voice their opinions about what makes UESP the place it is. So, everyone, don't get offended.

My best advice, and the advice that is often ignored, is to remember that we moderators are here for you, and you can talk to us. You can address any issues you have with us by going to your Private Messages section and either PMing a moderator you feel comfortable talking with or all of us in one shot by using the "Staff" group feature, which is located on the left of all messages. We do take the time to read your PMs, discuss them, and respond. You can always reach most of us off the forums as well. I, for one, am always available on MSN when I am on the forums, and my contact information is displayed in my profile for everyone to share. You can see which moderators are available for talking off the forums, and our current availability for PMs, in the contacts thread.

As for our actions as moderators and your concerns, Duruza, I will say to you the same thing I recently said in the General Discussion thread:


As moderators - and as fellow members - we're not here to be your enemy or to be unreachable; we're here because we want to give back to you guys and gals, who are our peers and friends at the end of the day. We're not perfect, either, and things are always changing and moving forward...but don't be afraid to ask us about why we act the way we do if you don't understand. We're always willing to let you know so you don't feel left out, which is what some of our veteran members are saying in this thread. If that makes sense.

Too long, didn't read? Here's the point: Talk to us!

I do not see any real problems with the forum or the moderators. My only complaint is that now and then some moderators will delete a post completely (as if it never existed) and the will strikeout somebody's post and put something else in that they view is more appropriate.

For the complete deletions, I believe those are unnecessary for they can really make a thread hard to read. If a mod does delete the post, then at least put something up that shows that the post has been liquidated.

For the post strike outs, I just don't agree with that. You might as well just delete it.

I am just talking about how the threads are re-organized after a anti-spam pogrom.

My eyes hurt after trying to figure out what just happened.

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I have no problems with PMsnot like I get any...

If a moderator does not answer you back then do what mars (he said that right?) does. PM another mod, then all of them, if that doesn't work then make a thread for everyone to see.

If this really is the case then something is amiss, in my mind. One or more of these might be the problems:

1. The mods are actually super busy, so they are ignoring your concerns since they are trivial problems to them at that time. If that is the case then there should be more of them to handle the problems.

2. The moderators just don't like you. I do not believe so, but then again I may never know.

3. Perhaps you have a bit of impatience, remember they have lives too... or maybe not.

4. Maybe you are a self-centered, narcissist, megalomaniac crybaby. Which I know you are not.
But some people here may percieve you as this and will always brush you off as such.

All in all, I do not know why you are being ignored, but there should be a reason why and what I have said may be an actual reason.

You forgot one:

5) Maybe they realized, that after saying the same things, over and over and over and over again, for more than a month, that you were not going to change your ways, and try to fit in...

I tried, and tried and tried and tried... I got tired of spending 30-60 minutes, to make a reply in Lore, to help guide members in how to properly have a Lore Discussion... trying to fix the spammy useless topics that were being started... only to get ignored... by one/two line replies of Spam.

My big heartburn... is that I have now been turned into the Grumpy Old Dude... yet again... by a bunch of new members... that WILL NOT, and DO NOT want to follow the Rules, and Fit in.

Saddly, I have realized, that being the older wiser mentor... that is the real me... was not working.

First of all, moderators are expected to reply to all member PMs. If for some reason yours was overlooked, then I apologize on behalf of the team. It does happen from time to time where we might miss one in our inbox influx despite my best intentions to reply single handedly to every one. However, Duruza, please feel as if you can always poke us in the sides, a little fiercely if necessary, if we overlook something. We make mistakes.

I would like to suggest that you discuss a problem that you feel you might have with a moderator with that moderator, privately, or with the entire team, to see if we can't clear up any misunderstandings. Then we can concentrate on the real issues in a space like this.

There is a lot so say but I am rushing out the door to work, but I wanted you to know I am reading this, and I will have a more thorough response.


Also, this -

- is not what we strive for. (You ain't old or grumpy, Jeff!) I think that is a bit of the issue, is that there is a communication issue. No one here is out to make new members feel alienated...but we want you to be a part of the forums, and we have advice for you. Ignoring members and moderators makes everyone feel a little upset and causes these misunderstandings. We like ideas and we like variation, but we cannot realistically change everything, if that makes sense. Just because we can't change things to how some people might want them doesn't mean there isn't a way to change them to make it work for everyone, yes?

Just as note: If the moderator in question is The Tom, he hasn't been active in a long time. He ain't ignoring you, he's just not coming on UESP. Tom's a great guy, and I can tell you if he was here he wouldn't neglect you.

And Duruza? I'm here, really. You wanna talk to someone, vent, ask questions, anything... Drop me a PM. I've got the time for everyone on these forums. I may be a bit intimidating or seem unfair at times, but really I only want whats best for this forum, my friends here and all my potential friends. Yes, that includes the new members!

Ya'll just gotta understand, we want you as a member, but there's certain ways things need to be done love. You ain't being asked for much or to leave your personality at the door.

@Jeff: I think you're a great guy, just keep doing your thing.

I'm sorry you're disappointed Duruzza. I believe I have one or two of your PMs unanswered, so if that's the problem, just contact me - you even have my personal email --- but I don't think that's it?

I don't believe there's one single person who has replied in this topic, who doesn't want the best for UESP, and fellow members. I think our responsibility now is to take care of each other, and the certain common cause we have. As a side note, we have had a topic for this, viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21125&hilit=Moderators

I'm not participating with personal opinions here. I urge you all to act for the best of us all. Consider your words.