Thoughts on Verification for new users... (CAPTCHA?)

Wolfie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:29 am

Av is right like always, I can hardily even think of the last time I saw a bot here.

OBLIVOWIND · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:31 am

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying Wolfie. I'm just bringing up other options/facts about it. I know some people cant decipher those!

Let me just show you what I mean here:

With this, it allows Refreshing, and audio verification. And YES I KNOW it's hard for some, even the audio. I've tried it. No need to repeat please.

For anyone interested, here is a link to view and attempt actual CAPTCHA codes/audio verification from captcha.net.

OBLIVOWIND · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:33 am

Avron the S'wit wrote:

Like Scozzar said, let's not get into the details now, please - let's just discuss the idea and let everyone get their voices in (before we get to three or four pages, please!). We love your ideas but don't post too quickly, now.

Of course, the question also is: do we have a bot problem? Not really. A few tricksters aside, and as I also said in the spambot thread, I'd say that 99% of spambots are eliminated before they have a chance to post; most are eliminated promptly after signing up; and moderators actively patrol the inactive/new users list behind the scenes for suspicious looking users. You don't see a great many spambots actually post, and the few that do are quickly stopped. Just because you find them doesn't mean they are an active problem, and you guys (and gals) are so good at finding them they usually meet their doom quickly!

We could add something, but let's assess if it's a problem first. Adding security is not just up to forum moderators and the forum admin(s), but also to Daveh. Likewise, don't forget the old saying: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yeah, but at least we could focus on other topics too! This last weekend we took out quite a few of them, and some even register twice! (Reporting bots is fun, :Twisted Evil:

but other threads need reading too. :lol:

)

Arch-Mage Matt · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:33 am

I support it. It can keep true spam bots out if the captcha is harder to read. Also, of course, we could pose a question to users, such as "Fill in the blank: The _____ Scrolls (TES Series Name)". That would keep out even the most intelligently designed spambots because they aren't capable of simple AI.

AddictedtoMorrowind · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:34 am

Sticking to topics like "No double posting".

The captchas are kind of easy for me, but they can be difficult for some users, like one with optical problems. *stares and Cam and AKB*

Wolfie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:35 am

Here is an exsample right here

Right there I read the E as a C
the l may be a t
and the r at the end thrw me for a sec, and I could refresh and have a whole nother problem
I have the problem so much that I dont join a lot of sites.

OBLIVOWIND · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:35 am

Arch-Mage Matt wrote:

I support it. It can keep true spam bots out if the captcha is harder to read. Also, of course, we could pose a question to users, such as "Fill in the blank: The _____ Scrolls (TES Series Name)". That would keep out even the most intelligently designed spambots because they aren't capable of simple AI.

I think if its a question, it should be simple, but maybe not DIRECTLY related to the forum. You could look at the logo here and answer that! (No offense though!)

Arch-Mage Matt · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:37 am

OBLIVOWIND wrote:

[I think if its a question, it should be simple, but maybe not DIRECTLY related to the forum. You could look at the logo here and answer that! (No offense though!)

But bots can't look around the site for answers, making them incapable of knowing the answer.

Ilikeskooma · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:38 am

"What's the race that looks like a cat?" this is the best one yet, easy, only has one meaning and funny all in one ^.^

Avron the S'wit · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:39 am

OBLIVOWIND wrote:

Arch-Mage Matt wrote:

I support it. It can keep true spam bots out if the captcha is harder to read. Also, of course, we could pose a question to users, such as "Fill in the blank: The _____ Scrolls (TES Series Name)". That would keep out even the most intelligently designed spambots because they aren't capable of simple AI.

I think if its a question, it should be simple, but maybe not DIRECTLY related to the forum. You could look at the logo here and answer that! (No offense though!)

But you could also read the captcha then, most likely, so what's the difference? If a spambot, being a human at least, wants to sign up, they will. That might stop some generic mechanical ones.

Registering twice? A lot of spambots do not register from the same e-mails and IPs, which are also banable, and a lot of sites also have multiple people spamming for them.

I don't mind a captcha, honestly, but I'm just not sure how important it is.

Chaos the N'wah · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:45 am

I'm not really against having a Captcha or adding security questions, but it seems more like a quality of life improvement then anything urgent
I've been here off and on for almost four years now, and I've only seen a grand total of maybe two to three bots actually make it far enough to post before getting put to the block.

Would it be nice to add something to alleviate some of the burden on the mods? yes, but I'd rather not discourage new users, fresh to the series, by their failure to answer what we considered an easy question/captcha, but they have no clue about.

OBLIVOWIND · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:49 am

Avron the S'wit wrote:

OBLIVOWIND wrote:

Arch-Mage Matt wrote:

I support it. It can keep true spam bots out if the captcha is harder to read. Also, of course, we could pose a question to users, such as "Fill in the blank: The _____ Scrolls (TES Series Name)". That would keep out even the most intelligently designed spambots because they aren't capable of simple AI.

I think if its a question, it should be simple, but maybe not DIRECTLY related to the forum. You could look at the logo here and answer that! (No offense though!)

But you could also read the captcha then, most likely, so what's the difference? If a spambot, being a human at least, wants to sign up, they will. That might stop some generic mechanical ones.

Registering twice? A lot of spambots do not register from the same e-mails and IPs, which are also banable, and a lot of sites also have multiple people spamming for them.

I don't mind a captcha, honestly, but I'm just not sure how important it is.

Yes. Very true about reading. And importance, that's why I moved the discussion to a new thread. I'll be off of here for the rest of the night but I understand all opinions. It's just something that was mentioned, so I brought it up.

Thanks everyone for all of your opinions.

Pingpat · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:34 am

I don't think we necessarily need verification on new users. Mods (and other members) do a great job keeping bots away. During my stay here, including the lurking before joining, I think I've only seen one bot post.

Now, if we are set on getting new verification, I'm against using a captcha. They're terribly inconvenient and, in my experience, the protection they offer is minimal. I think asking a question might be the better option, but again, bots can still bypass that. I think we're fine as it is.

Arch-Mage Matt · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:38 am

I imagine bots would be able to scan a capctcha and enter necessary information.

scribbane · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:56 am

Chaos the N'wah wrote:

I'm not really against having a Captcha or adding security questions, but it seems more like a quality of life improvement then anything urgent
I've been here off and on for almost four years now, and I've only seen a grand total of maybe two to three bots actually make it far enough to post before getting put to the block.

Would it be nice to add something to alleviate some of the burden on the mods? yes, but I'd rather not discourage new users, fresh to the series, by their failure to answer what we considered an easy question/captcha, but they have no clue about.

Hit the nail on the head there.

I will say if one of these options was to be implemented, my vote would go to the CAPTCHA, just because that is a fair test. Posing a trivia question for new users, however easy it may be, isn't fair. Because what I think is an easy question, may not be easy to you. Example, my buddy got Skyrim for Christmas, and so has been playing for about a month now. He plays as an Imperial, but still can't remember what they are called, because it isn't that important to him. Just because its considered "basic ES knowledge", still doesn't mean it's basic to all.

Wolfie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:57 am

^ by the same token what of pepole like me? I'm amlosty always wrong on them no m atter how many times I refresh?

Iamgoofball · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:07 am

Scozzar wrote:

Wolfie wrote:

No, for one reason, it may stop some but really the bots that get through anyways (by filling out things) can get through that.
I'd see it as just annoying to people who wish to join, those things are bloody hard sometimes for me

I never find them annoying, and we can change how difficult it can be.

I think I may have to quote a person over at LBPCentral making a joke about difficult captchas (A Math one was the example they were using.)

Quote:

Hey, guys only 3 people joined this year, and they are all talking about math. Weird.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:37 am

I don't really think there's a great need for change, and as such I think it's something that Daveh would look at if the need arose. I've seen a number of Forums with much greater Spambot problems, and all that is really needed to combat the problem, is for the Mods to keep doing the great job they're already doing and for users to keep on the lookout for bots that slip through the net.

scribbane · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:47 pm

Wolfie wrote:

^ by the same token what of pepole like me? I'm amlosty always wrong on them no m atter how many times I refresh?

I don't think we need either system, because of people like you as well. But I do think that if we HAD to implement one, I think the CAPTCHA is more fair. That's all I meant by that.

Wolfie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:32 pm

Yes, becuse so many pepole have seen\used these in the past and know they either dont work, or are to hard\ anoying, why would we want that on new users?

Wolfie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:38 pm

Have you seen what it was like beofre and after the thing was added?

Wolfie · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:44 pm

But how can you say it was what helped?
Are you a mod there?
Maybe its like this site where they are there but they get stoped by mods beofre they can post?
As I've said, most bots I see are the ones that could get passed it in the first place.

Avron the S'wit · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:00 pm

I still don't think spambots are really a big deal. We don't have a captcha for a reason; and before we get one, the moderators could try a few extra things. I think our current method is fine. The proof is in the puddin'!

So let's not get too carried away, ja?

OBLIVOWIND · **Posted:** Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:33 pm

Avron the S'wit wrote:

I still don't think spambots are really a big deal. We don't have a captcha for a reason; and before we get one, the moderators could try a few extra things. I think our current method is fine. The proof is in the puddin'!

So let's not get too carried away, ja?

Agreed. Besides this one of the least infected forums I've been to. I only posted this thread so the spambot thread wouldn't veer way off topic. I won't say that CAPTCHA is needed, but is more of a precaution. And there are other options, like you said there are a few people - myself included - that already are picking out the bots and throwing them to the dragons! :Twisted Evil:

Iamgoofball · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:58 am

OBLIVOWIND wrote:

Avron the S'wit wrote:

I still don't think spambots are really a big deal. We don't have a captcha for a reason; and before we get one, the moderators could try a few extra things. I think our current method is fine. The proof is in the puddin'!

So let's not get too carried away, ja?

Agreed. Besides this one of the least infected forums I've been to. I only posted this thread so the spambot thread wouldn't veer way off topic. I won't say that CAPTCHA is needed, but is more of a precaution. And there are other options, like you said there are a few people - myself included - that already are picking out the bots and throwing them to the dragons! :Twisted Evil:

You haven't seen the LittleBigPlanet fansite forums. No, seriously. They have had no spambots at all.

Thoughts on Verification for new users... (CAPTCHA?)
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