War for the Caldera Mines - Great House Mod Project

[OblivionDuruza ●]

In game there is some tension between Houses Redoran and Hlaalu over Caldera and the Caldera Mines, however the game doesn't really go into a whole lot of depth in the area. Andere suggested that it might be fun to create a collaborative Mod expanding this conflict out, and even giving layers the opportunity to decide which House retains the Mines, building in a battle and some quests, for both Houses and possibly even a limited option for outsiders too.

So here I begin the search, for modders willing and able to begin this Mod Project, for Morrowind. Is there anyone out there at all interested, no matter how great your knowledge of modding is?

[Velothi ●]

I, Velothi, Council-Man of House Redoran and High Lord of Indoril pledge to be apart of this!

I, like in the Redoran group-thread, suggest this to have a few things.

For one; little textual changes (besides burning buildings and some guards dying) to make it compatible with other mods. We could try to change the Castle (destroy it and have a Redoran Hub, or make it a Redoran Castle; Imperial in structure but Redoran pictures, flags, etc), if Redoran has victory.

Another would be multiply endings ranging from diplomacy (in Hlaalu's or Redorans favor) or military-conflict. Both will be difficult, moreso diplomacy due to Caldera's governor.

Along with some dialogue changes of the denizens of Caldera, Ald'Ruhn and Balmora concerning Caldera. As well as some extra things if you are leader (ArchMasher/Grand-Master) of said group that wins or loses; putting forth a claim that may or may not succeed.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Yeah multiple endings would be nice if we could do them. The status quo is obviously Hlaalu, as it is in-game, but there might be a couple of options, ranging from an all out war, to diplomacy, to blackmail/treachery, on both sides.

For example, the 'war' option might involve defending the mines for the Hlaalu, and attacking them for Redoran, so we could use the same set of NPCs for each side of the quest, plus a few other quests to prepare for the eventual battle for Caldera.

Blackmail could involve blackmailing or bribing the Redoran Council as a Hlaalu, or treachery could involve using Ordal Helvi as a double agent if you're a Redoran, and killing the Governor.

The Legion would side with Hlaalu, but there might be a quest branch to pay off the Legion and/or Governor so they look the other way, as a Redoran, or simply attacking the Legion Barracks.

A diplomacy option could involve gathering funds from across Redoran territory to buy the mines, and a possible land swap, which would involve contracts and so on. On the Hlaalu side it could involve something similar.

[Velothi ●]

I'd rather go by inciting a popular riot in Legion ranks as they respect Redoran forces; get to know the Imperial troopers and such.

Then? Either aid them (Send patrols, do it yourself), or allow the popular movement to lead its own course. Then you could have both Imperial Legion helpers, and the Imperials don't hate you as much for getting Legion support.

I'd use war as basically it is an end-game choice when the Council of Redoran finally decides they can not stand for the Caldera grab. If you are a Redoran Archmaster, they ask for your approval for a House War contract (both forces to fight and Morag Tong).

If you are Hlaalu, Bolvyn Venim does it to prove Redoran's strength under his leadership.

I'd rather do diplomacy with Curo, and Bero; coming to an agreement that House Hlaalu leaves Caldera Mine and City while Redoran releases claims off of House Hlaalu.

Or Redoran literally bringing its armies to Balmora to threaten House Hlaalu to giving into their demands, or making popular revolts in Balmora.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

A revolt in Caldera might be interesting, although I'm not too sure of the practicality f attacking/besieging, or inciting violence in Blamora, being Hlaalu heartland and the second largest city on VVardenfell.

We could even assemble a War Council for both Houses, before the battle. Meeting Under-Skar or in Balmora?

Diplomacy might involve doing a few favours for House Hlaalu, and maybe organising some form of compensation for the loss of Caldera?

[Velothi ●]

Yeah, With the War Leader (Miner Arobar in PAX Redoran) heading of strategies to take over Caldera with minimal losses while the War Council in Balmora mostly discusses of how to best use their position to maintain their dominance.

Under-Skar would mostly have debates (Which involves the arch-Master) in how to take over Caldera. Popular Revolt, Military Invasion, Military Coup (Imperial Guard influence or getting to know the troubles of them) or House Hlaalu giving up their claims via diplomacy.

With Hlaalu, you could avoid the conflict as a whole with giving into Redoran demands. Though there would be repercussions (such as Hlaalu Civil war in Caldera prior to Redoran ownership), and some Council-men denouncing you.

Though I think one of the favours would be a new mine (one that we so coincidentally find near Balmora) for Hlaalu.

Though I'd go by revolt in Balmora as even if it is in the Heartland, I'm very sure it is possible due to Cammona Tong inhabitants. (Council-Club which gets refilled in our mod, using it as a factor of the revolt)

Or simply using the Imperial Legion at the Fort to stress the House Hlaau in Balmora to accept Redoran's deal if you try to be like Bolvyn Venim; without honor.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Well the same could be done to undermine Redoran really, blackmail, assassinations, even intensifying the infighting between Venmin and Sarethi. But as far as the scale, that's almost too grand, so perhaps keep the focus on Caldera?

One thing to be careful of is compatibility, particularly with PAX Redoran and Grandmaster of Hlaalu, and any major mods that alter Caldera.

[Velothi ●]

True, so we'll keep it related to Caldera; since it'll maintain compatibility.

Though I don't think there are any mods that relate to altering Caldera; but how will we go about the scripting and dialogue beginning to the conflict?

And should we make it only available when the player reaches Grand-Master Rank and Arch-Master Rank, or available to any rank?

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Hmm, that might be something to think about, maybe there should be a rank limit, after which you hear rumours or are asked by a quest-giver to go deal with things. Maybe something mid-range like House Cousin/Brother?

[Velothi ●]

Yeah, House Brother as that is when you take Council-Men quests to become a Council-Man; thus learning about Caldera from the Redoran side.

While for Hlaalu you get it at that stage as you've learned enough about House Hlaalu, done the Governors quests and so froth.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

We could even work something Hlaalu related in before the player needs to turn in Ordal Helvi, adding to the double agent idea? Maybe.

As for compatibility, how is PAX Redoran? Anything that might be important to note for Caldera?

[Velothi ●]

There is only one quest concerning Caldera, which is dynamic in itself.

It involves Garisa Llethri basically giving you a choice, send in Redoran patrols to clear Bandit caves near the Caldera mines to prove Redoran is more able to handle Caldera than Hlaalu (which you go to Ebonheart to hear about it. Hlaalu complains but Duke Dren doesn't care much as it takes care of bandits).

That is all Caldera is involved with, the other Business for the Council is Wall of Ald'ruhn (never see, dynamic), pensions for widows and orphans, getting a Temple Liason, and another quest I can not recall.

PAX Redoran is very dynamic when it comes to its own original quest lines. It even tries to involve House Hlaalu ebony-sabotage quest and Mages Guild Monopoly (Which, in the end, is not affected no matter if you support the downfall or not. Telvanni captured Duke's daughter which you foil and basically they retract their claim).

[OblivionDuruza ●]

I see, well it might be best to create the mod independent from PAX Redoran, but to test it regularly to ensure compatibility. That way, it can act as both a standalone mod and a complement to PAX Redoran and Grandmaster of Hlaalu.

[Velothi ●]

Right, so we have a time where the first scripting rumor would begin. (House Brother Rank)

Now, will the usual quest givers (Curo and Sarethi) be the ones to give out the first stages of the quest? Or use Caldera's quest-givers?

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Well perhaps some rumour around Balmora and Ald'rhun, something like this:

I heard that House Redoran is readying its troops. Who knows why? Some say they have their eyes set on the Caldera Mines.

Then the player travels to their quest-giver and the quest formally begins?

[Velothi ●]

I'd rather begin it more...you know; formally.

Usually depending on your stance as well.

For example(s);

"Hail House Brother! So, as I'm sure you've heard this, but the Council Under-Skar has been talking a lot about the Caldera grab; and how they should react. Miner Arobar is saying we should go in with all military-offensives and take the city by force. Sarethi is proposing a more honorable method of having the people take Caldera then the Redoran military move in to aid the popular revolt. Bolvyn is siding with Arobar's idea but is currently having his own idea of completely crushing any resistance in Caldera. This has alienated him from the Council, as well as the entire discussion of the subject. But I tell this to you as both a friend and a fellow Redoran. So, try to keep it quiet unless you want to go to the Council-Club. Okay?" (If you are a House-Brother, Redoran)


"Hail House Brother! So, I'm sure you've heard this gossip about Caldera; right? No? Well that's a shock...anyways Redoran is getting agitated due to Caldera being a Hlaalu town as of now; with Imperial guards rather then even Hlaalu types. Many, even in our own House, claim that Caldera is an Imperial territory more than a Hlaalu-one. But I'd disagree...anyways many of the Councilors are heading to Balmora to discuss what they should do in order to prevent a House-War. We don't need that, ruin our business! Maybe you should go over there? I'm sure Curo or another Councilor may need a spokesman or something like that." (House Brother-Hlaalu)


"Ah, Council-man! Glad I could catch you, I'm one of the assistants to Bolvyn Venim. He has called you to a meeting Under-Skar; we couldn't possibly do it without our newest Council-man. As you probably know, Caldera has been a sensitive issue for House Redoran. Many Councilors are making decisions and taking sides; about three have affirmed to military invasion while three others have gone for diplomacy. So far it is a tie; unless you want to...shift the balance in someone's favor? If you want to hear my two cents about this, if you would allow me, I say we should do something with the Imperial Legion. I mean they are the power in Caldera. If we have the Imperial Legion, the People and our own Forces in Caldera? House Hlaalu wouldn't be able to do anything, no matter how many N'wah's they hired! So, you are expected to visit the Arch-Master, Council-Man. Serve with Honor." (House Redoran, random NPC contacts PC when he arrives in Ald'Ruhn some time after Indarys Manor is completed)


"Greetings Council-Man, you are expected in Hlaalu Councilor manor; as an important issue has come up. Apparently most Councilors of House Hlaalu have come to report and discuss on Caldera's situation and the Redoran threat. Since, as we know, Bolvyn Venim will stop at nothing to both obtain Caldera and prove the strength of House Redoran to us and the Telvanni. Sadly, though, Duke Dren will not be arriving as he has more important business to deal with. There are also some Redoran patrols that scare the Councilors, some even suggested getting Ovras Dren to aid them! The very idea...I am sorry Council-man; I'm rambling. They are discussing the prospects of diplomacy or violence; but will not continue without you. I hope you may finally solve this conflict...for the sake of us all." (Random NPC contacts PC in Balmora after Stronghold's completion, Hlaalu Council-man)

"Ah, Arch-Master! I'm glad I could catch up with you, and have a message from Aryth Sarethi. He wishes to to come to Under-Skar in Ald'Ruhn; as there is an important meeting concerning the Council. And, of course, they can not begin without you! The letter will have the details, Arch-Master. May you guide House Redoran honorably into prosperity." (Arch-Master Rank, Visit any Redoan city and a random NPC will approach you sooner or later.)

"Greetings, Grand-Master. I have a message from Councilor Curo; he wishes you to come to Balmora immediately. Apparently something related to Caldera and all such; the letter will give you details as to what is happening. I was not informed of much, so I wouldn't know to begin with. In any case; here is your letter and I will be on my way. I hope this isn't rather dangerous...and if so; I hope you will lead us into a peaceful measure if possible." (Grand-Master, any Hlaalu city and be visited by a Random NPC. Perhaps sleeping there?)


Like that ^

Last edited by Velothi on Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Yeah, I was thinking that there might be an in-between, like a messenger or something, however that might be harder with Morrowind than Oblivion. I still like the idea of rumours, but yes, there should be something like what you posted above as a way of getting the PC to visit their quest giver. Also, as far as quest-givers, perhaps your quest-giver (Sarethi, Curio) can send you to another more specialised member, like Miner Arobar for instance, for the actual quest?

[Velothi ●]

I'd go it around as Aythn describes the situation of the Council (be the PC House Brother, Council-man or Archmaster) and can speak to each of the councilors about their position and how it would be enacted.

Then, you may either convince the other councilors to side with the idea you prefer (Temple influence can be used, as if you are both honorable and pious then you know how things should be done.), or simply cast your vote and yours is counted in with the rest (Arch-Master vote in Council-Voting is simply one vote).

Then they begin the plans, if it is war or popular revolt than you go with Miner Arobar.

A similar situation happens with Curo but it all depends if you left Ovras alive or not; as if you did you have your own little power-house in the council-voting. If not, you have to use blackmail or speech to win people over.

Then you are sent to Bero whom will allow you to chose a "Hlaalu" military adviser.

But yeah, Aythn and Curo will be mainly used for discussion, voting, and the parts of morality in this quest. the Honor of Hlaalu and Redoran.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Perhaps you go to Miner and he details it in brief, then you attend the Council where either Miner or Venmin detail it in full, and then you can speak to each Councillor?

Then you report back to Miner for the entire quest line, but you also report to Sarethi, keeping him in the loop kind of like the Hlaalu quests involving Ordal Helvi?

[Velothi ●]

Yeah, that'll work.

And we will have dialogue text boxes (similar if you are actually speaking to them) appear during the meeting. This will allow us to make it easier for us and the player, as I don't think any of us have a proper Dunmer voice to attempt to vocalize the characters during the Council meeting for Hlaalu or Redoran.

(As seen in "Vivec's Fate; an Ashlander Heresy)

Since we can only change a few things (burning buildings will be probably easy in the construction set as we need to set up fire, borrow textures from destroyed buildings and ruins, etc), I also propose the 'finale' be also set up.

With Hlaalu I suppose for them there can be a varity of endings.

One would be Caldera actually becomes a Hlaalu town, Imperial guards are kicked out and Hlaalu guards are placed in its stead. I don't know if we should do something of a construction (for a new castle/hub) for the new HQ.

But for Redoran, there should be some changes.

One of these will be whom is the 'lord' of Caldera. Typically Ald'Ruhn is held by the ArchMaster (that means that Ald'Ruhn and Indarys Manor have the new Arch-Master as their lord), but I suppose that in the Council-Meeting you can either A; run it yourself (this will mean it'll be more than a war-mod, it is a mod for a city and how it will develop and go about), have Aythn Sarethi run it or choose someone else. (Basically you review new candidates for Lord-ship from Redoran NPCs and decide whether or not they are fit to rule Caldera)

This also means we can add some NPCs and buildings (Tribunal Temple building, Morag Tong, all that) to give it a more Dunmer-feel if Redoran is victorious. While not all Imperial buildings are taken down; we can give the player a dynamic feel of that Caldera would (if not for the Red Year and destruction of Ald'Ruhn) become a Redoran town.

While for Hlaalu you can keep everything the same with an exception of Hlaalu guards if you make the city an actual Hlaalu one. (This also means the Castle will have a Dunmer staff, as well as some advisers and Governors that you can choose from or Curo can.)

As Grand-Master/Arch-Master you can decide some of the fates of merchants, guilds, and so on as the new city can be 'yours'.


EDIT: PAX Redoran also has a set of quests to do as Hortator as Telvanni, Redoran or Hlaalu. http://lgnpc.org/walkthrough-pax-redoran#help

That's if you want to see it, there are some other quests involving banning Ash Statues and all that.

Other then that alot of PAX Redoran quests are either dynamic yet inter-related or simply dynamic but independent.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Cool, I'll have to check out PAX! Also, on your suggestions, perhaps there could be an option for Hlaalu to 'rebuild' and expand the town, keeping Imperial reign, but with a greater Hlaalu presence in the mine area? While for Redoran there would be the entire 'colonisation' mini-questline?

Also, a couple of things: We should work out a timeline for the plan, I'm pretty free to Mod around December time, and probably a fair bit in January too. Until then, we need to work out a fair few things:

• Quests - each quest will need to be mapped out, with the stages and relevant NPCs worked out
• NPCs, we'll need to work out which we are adding and changing, and what changes will be made. We may need an entire hidden faction to be created for the questlines, and we'll need to design all the NPCs
• Locations and Buildings, we'll need to figure out where the quests will take place, and test for clashes with other mods on those locations. We'll need to design buildings to add, and possibly redesign some buildings or areas if we plan to change the town as the post-questline mini-questline.

I say we focus on quests first, and that we work on the base questlines for each faction, running in chronological order, perhaps starting with House Redoran.

[Velothi ●]

I'd prefer the term "Dunmerisation" but, generally yes.

Anyways for the quest line here is what we should agree on; when the player hears of the meeting of Redoran/Hlaalu (Quest-named "The Councils"), s/he should head over there. Now with the Under-Skar hub, we should probably set up the Council somewhere the members could be all together.

Redoran Council entrance perhaps? But in any case, the quest will only matter with ranks if you are heading the meeting (Archmaster asking what everyone's opinion on what), or apart of the meeting (Council-Man asking what the other Councilors think) or simply a spokesman (House Brother asking Athyn Sarethi what is going on, then asking the councilors in their spare time what they think).

After this the Archmaster will simply tell the entire Council what his/her decision, while if he is not Archmaster Bolvyn Venim will inform the Council of the decision.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

The Council Hall where you first join seems apt, although maybe in a room off the main hall? Or in the inner hall itself?

So here's what we have so far (Redoran - first quest):

• Here rumours around Ald'ruhn or Balmora of Redoran troop movements (provided you are House Brother rank or higher?)
• Travel to Ald'ruhn and speak to NPC (possibly/probably Sarethi) who informs PC of Council of War
• Join the Council of War and get a briefing

Also, I just remembered this quest. We do need to consider it.

[Velothi ●]

The Caldera mines do get disrupted due to the slave riot (either from freeing the leader or killing her); but we do not know how long it lasts.

If anything with Bolvyn Venim, Miner Arobar we'd also see Llethri also wanting to be apart of the military invasion of Caldera. (Since he personally sent you to discover evidence of corruption and then disrupt the mines)

But yes, at the rank of House Brother we should implement the rumor as for Redoran it'll be far enough that the player completed the Llethri quests (and the other Council-men quests).

While for House Hlaalu it'll be far enough that he knows of the corruption within Caldera and Redoran's grievances toward it.

But yes, generally the NPC to go to is Aythn Sarethi be it a Council-man, House Brother or Archmaster. (As he is your personal friend basically)

So after the Council of War; you have to choose what method the Council should take. Through persuasion (speechcraft if you are House Brother and for Council-man. For Archmaster you should give a good reason, as well as their disposition being above 80) you may be able to make some minds turn.

But with Bolvyn, you can not. You can only make the Council either be with him or against him to change his mind or put it through.

Then after the Council of War has made its mind; this is where the quest diverges.

If you chose Military War (Redoran invasion) then you go to Miner Arobar.

If you chose Popular Revolt you go to Ramoran and Morvayn. (Since I don't want to make all the choices one similar thing)

If you chose Military coup you'd go to Miner Arobar and Garisa Llethri (As both are military and have experience of speaking to troops on a personal level and getting to know them.)

If you chose Diplomacy you go talk to Aythn Sarethi.

Then the quest ends as you choose one of the sides "Caldera-Diplomacy" "Caldera-Military Invasion" "Caldera-Military Coup" "Caldera-Popular Revolt"


EDIT: Also the Council Meeting should be within the Council Enterance where all speak to Bolvyn whom is behind that desk we see. The rest of the Councilors form a circle and begin to speak.

That's how the Council of War will be set up at least.

[OblivionDuruza ●]

Should we not have a grand table set up or something? For the Council I mean.

Also, on the quests, perhaps the player is assigned to investigate the matter before open conflict begins? So say, some Councillors wish to go in and take it by force, but others argue that that is too risky a move at this point?

That would open up a few quests just for the PC to complete.