Baurus and Jauffre (Spoilers Ahead!)

Unionhack · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:25 am

Spoiler:

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:35 am

You might like to add the word Spoiler to the title of the thread, and perhaps utilise spoiler tags: [ spoiler ][ /spoiler ]

Spoiler:

Interesting question though, I haven't completed the Main Quest that many times to tell the truth, as I tend to like the Shivering Isles and Guilds a lot too, and focus on them more often.

However, in all of my playthroughs, I like to see it that important NPCs survive, and although I can go through long periods of frustration when they die only moments before their salvation, I wouldn't have it any other way.

By the way, your ideas sound pretty cool, I'll have to try the funeral pyre one some time. :mrgreen:

Unionhack · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:16 am

Forgot about putting the tags. XD Thanks for reminding me!
And thanks for replying, I was about to think I was the only one who did anything for them.

perylousdemon · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:14 am

Thus far, I've only completed the main quest once.

Spoiler:

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:54 am

That doesn't seem right, I was under the impression that they could not die whilst you were in the Great Gate, because you had to be in the cell for their AI to work. Perhaps they were killed after you closed the gate, by stragglers? I could be wrong though.

Unionhack wrote:

Forgot about putting the tags. XD Thanks for reminding me!
And thanks for replying, I was about to think I was the only one who did anything for them.

Don't worry about it. Just so happens, my brother fought the Battle of Bruma today. Funnyily enough, Baurus was already dead from The Path of Dawn, and Jauffre, Burd and the Skingrad Guard were the only people to die during his battle. 2 Anvil Guards, 2 Chorrol Guards, the Bruma Guards/Militia and a Cheydinhal Guard all survived, but the named characters just had to kick the bucket :lol:

.

perylousdemon · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:48 pm

OblivionDuruza wrote:

That doesn't seem right, I was under the impression that they could not die whilst you were in the Great Gate, because you had to be in the cell for their AI to work. Perhaps they were killed after you closed the gate, by stragglers? I could be wrong though.

All I know is, they were alive when I went in, and very much dead when I came out. Maybe they got killed just before I entered the gate and I didn't notice. *shrug*

Dark Spark · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:29 pm

For some odd reason, there are times when Cap'n Burd and the Blades will start fighting each other as you emerge victorious from beneath the dead Siege Crawler. That's how Jauffre or Baurus often end up dead— killed by 'friendly' fire.

Unionhack · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:42 pm

Dark Spark wrote:

For some odd reason, there are times when Cap'n Burd and the Blades will start fighting each other as you emerge victorious from beneath the dead Siege Crawler. That's how Jauffre or Baurus often end up dead— killed by 'friendly' fire.

This is most likely because you accidentally hit someone and Jauffre and Baurus came to your aid, or they accidentally hit someone and this resulted in a fight.

Jeff · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:02 pm

...once you get to know the Humor of Dark Spark... you will understand that they know the "odd reason".

- - - - - - - - - -

I know that it says that the fighting stops when you enter the Great Gate on the Wiki. However, I did some testing, using my leet ninja console command skills. I killed all enemy, everyone was alive, entered the gate, tcl'd directly to the Sigil Stone, and took it... several times.

...only to find a dead Soldier, Soldiers Fighting, or a Daedric Creature there, ect...

I believe what happens, is that creatures stop spawning from the gate if you are not in the cell. However, if they are already there, or in the process of arriving (as it take a few seconds to get to the gate and enter), they stay there, and fighting continues.

This does happen normally in game. If you enter a cell, it spawns some creatures, but you do not meet them and kill them, then they are still there to ambush traveling NPC's. This is how Countess Alessia Caro can die, as well as a few other NPC's.

Unionhack · **Posted:** Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:52 pm

Yeah, fighting can still go on even if you're not in a certain cell. It took me a few tries to get them to stay alive, and on my first few times I got into the gate thinking they were alive, but came out to their corpses.

If I recall correctly, when the Great Gate opens, three Dremora Valkynaz (or somewhere around that rank) pop out regardless of your level. On my beat-the-MQ-at-level-1 character, I recall a few Valkynaz popping out and wiping the floor with me and Martin because I wasn't prepared for them.

Achilleus · **Posted:** Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:07 am

Jauffre died. I was happy since I wanted Baurus to be the Grandmaster.

mcjordalini · **Posted:** Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:38 am

I've only beaten then main quest once, and I didn't even care to look if they were still a live LOL.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:30 am

@Jeff, that's interesting, I've never noticed that, probably because I go to extended lengths to ensure that characters survive (including spells and what not) - I don't do the main quest often, and when I do I want to do it 'right', although in saying that there is a sense of poetic justice accompanying major characters' deaths. Anyhow, that might explain a few things then. Perhaps the wiki needs an update?

drumgodrob · **Posted:** Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:42 am

I can never get them to survive at the Great Gate battle. They always either both get owned when i'm in the gate (it's only Martin that can't die when your in the gate) or, like someone else said, loads of guards end up fighting each other when the quest is finished lol.

Jeff · **Posted:** Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:57 am

You sort of have to be careful with editing the Wiki. Not everyone has the exact same set up, PC, DLC, Mod's, ect... This can sometimes explain some of the (one-off) oddeties, especially when use of the concole commands is involved. It would be more appropriate to post something on the Talk Page, and see if more members could also verify this.

I believe it should be more along the lines of "Daedra stop Spawning", rather than "The fight Stops/freezes".

- This is basically the way it works normally in game, with Creatures and NPC. If you cause a creature to spawn, it is there until you kill it, or it encounters and NPC who kills it, or you come back around.

- I have also seen/done similar at Fort Sutch.

Now there could be a few things to also take into account.

- Daedra normally come out a Gate in 2-4 per group. Usually about 3 most of the time. Since there are 3 Gates Spawning Daedra, it is possible for a few to start to spawn, after the 3rd Gate opens, and there is a few seconds from killing the last (visible) Daera, to the time it takes to get to the gate.

- Daedra could be spawning, as you enter the gate.

- It could actually freeze Combat when you enter. It may just appear that it did not, as there is also quite a few seconds from when you Exit the Gate, to where you can actually see what is going on.

- It could be that they started to spawn as you entered the Great Gate, the game freezes Combat, then in the few seconds it takes after you Exit the Gate, they have started fighting again.

There are quite a few variables that are hard to pin down, to make what I have tested factual.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:15 am

For now then, I'll raise the possibility, and perhaps reword the page so that it is not so specific to combat outside the gate ceasing, on the talk page, and then a decision can be made. If you say you've found evidence to believe that this is the case, then I trust you, but if more testing needs to be done, it can be done to verify.

Edit: I've raised this possibility on the artcile's talkpage, but I haven't touched the article yet.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:59 am

Turns out entering the gate DOES NOT END COMBAT, but simply activates a StopCombatAlarmOnActor command on Martin. This means that he may not die after this point, but other NPCs can. The wiki has been updated accordingly.

Twilight · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:04 am

I do pretty much everything you do OP, so no I don't think it's weird. xD They usually die for me as well, unless I complete he MQ at a low level. Which I have done before, but not often. ;~;

Jeff · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:55 am

Ahhh... that explains it. I had looked at the Scripts, but was looking at Quest Specific Scripts. That one is probably tied to Martin, since it doesn't affect all NPC's at the Battle. I'll have to see if I can find it, just so I know where it's at.

Thanks, nicely done. That is the way Wiki Edits should be done. This way, if someone has issues with the Edit, if they bother to look at the talk page, they will see why it was done.

Pavouk106 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:38 pm

I have finished main quest for the first time on 22nd october 2011 (yeah, three days ago) and I have to say

Spoiler:

M.C.Marcellus · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:25 pm

OblivionDuruza wrote:

Turns out entering the gate DOES NOT END COMBAT, but simply activates a StopCombatAlarmOnActor command on Martin. This means that he may not die after this point, but other NPCs can. The wiki has been updated accordingly.

I'm planning to keep them alive with a level 25+ character, so I'd like to know if enemies will respawn in Bruma after you enter the Great Gate.
Otherwise I'll just cheat and set them as essental...

I've read what Jeff said:

Jeff wrote:

I believe what happens, is that creatures stop spawning from the gate if you are not in the cell. However, if they are already there, or in the process of arriving (as it take a few seconds to get to the gate and enter), they stay there, and fighting continues.

What I mean is how long the respawnig time is, so maybe I can clear the battlefield and enter the gate before they respawn.

The Silent Striker · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:24 pm

Barus and Jaurferee dying was such [&@%!]. Most of the guards died, and so did the duo, but for some reason, an ill equipped poorly trained force of local militia came off intact? I mean, they weren't cowardly or anything, they just somehow survived. Anyway, I wonder what happenes if you talk to martin naked after the battle? Naked statue in bruma? Lol.

Unionhack · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:49 pm

The Silent Striker wrote:

Barus and Jaurferee dying was such [&@%!] Most of the guards died, and so did the duo, but for some reason, an ill equipped poorly trained force of local militia came off intact? I mean, they weren't cowardly or anything, they just somehow survived. Anyway, I wonder what happenes if you talk to martin naked after the battle? Naked statue in bruma? Lol.

If you have armor in your inventory, you'll have it on your statue whether it was equipped or not. The statue uses your weapons with the highest health left (if your iron dagger is fully repaired and your Epic Longsword of Epic Epicalness has taken a beaten, your statue will have your wittle dagger.), and the same applies to your armor. So the best thing to do is leave anything you don't want on your statue in your house, or in some other secure place.

Farlace · **Posted:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:19 pm

Baurus

Spoiler:

Jauffre

Spoiler:

Those are my versions, I mean :oops:

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:11 am

@M.C.Marcellus, I'm not sure if the Daedra stop respawning, so I can't tell you for sure, but I wouldn't worry too much about it, because there isn't much you can do. You could use the console, or alternatively you could try reverse pickpocket some beneficially enchanted items onto the NPCs you wish to survive.

Honestly, I'm not too sure, but I will say that on the most recent Defense of Bruma that I observed, a level 20 Orc only lost 4 NPCs, and most, if not all of them died before he entered the Great Gate.

Baurus and Jauffre (Spoilers Ahead!)
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