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This rant is long overdue but here it is. I want to start out by saying im not one to play video games. I dont own an xbox or ps3. I sold my ps2 when i realized i wasnt enjoying grand turismo anymore and there were several layers of dust on the system. I made $50 and spent it on other things that make me happy. That should go to show how highly i think of oblivion. I dont like video games for several reasons, but when it comes to this game i dont care. Its almost as good as Earthbound for super nintendo. Nothing will ever surpass that game. I just wanted to make that clear cause im about to complain a lot about this game

Oblivions fighting system is so terrible it hurts. Its more painful than listening to an old bush speech. There are many things that bother me about it. Ill start with the first thing i noticed, that being that all the mastery perks are the same. It seems to me that it wouldnt be hard to make them different. That would be cool because then there would be advantages and disadvantages to wielding certain weapons.

For instance say blunt is big and heavy, so that could give you a chance for knockdown but you wouldnt be able to disarm someone. If you were hand to hand that would make more sense for the opposite (i am aware that a punch to the chin will drop anyone but im giving some leeway).

Another thing that bothers me is all the movements are the same. Ill admit that ive only been trained in one type of blade (not the coolest of them either), but its physically impossible to wield a larger blade the same way. Even if it was possible you wouldnt want to because a larger blade would have a different advantage.

You know what would be realllllly cool? Is different schools of combat for the weapons. How incredibly badass would that be? There are more forms of hand to hand combat than i even know. I imagine there are (or was) a lot as well for the various weapons. That would further take my previous point of different weapons having different advantages, the same would go with the styles and certain styles could give bonuses for certain weapons.

Also, as the character progresses in his combat school youd see him/her physically change there fighting appearance. Say in hand to hand combat when they start out all the punches would be a typical bar fight punch, a wild hay maker to the face (fun fact this is sometimes why many people break/injure their hand in fights along with hitting with the wrong knuckles). Later as the person progresses in their combat youd see it when you fight. Their stance would change, theyd use jabs and kicks depending on the type of style they choose.

I also thought the damage system could be adjusted. This is a hard one because youre not always fighting a human in the game. What could be done though is if you keep hitting the same area then it adds up. For instance if you hit in the ribs over and over it will reach a point where its now doing 2x damage. Which leads me to yet another point.

I feel as though they should totally steal the fighting system from UFC undisputed (except for the ground game). In that game you can make use of both left and right hands for high, mid, and low attacks. How easy would that be? Left click left punch, right click right punch, hold shift and use a kick of that side. Typing about this is making me angry, why cant i use a kick?!

I really could keep going, i could go on and on but im tired of typing. This is probably the longest thing ive ever typed on this or any forum. I hate typing, and i hate the fact that when i level up the game lies to me and says "hours of punching and kicking youre now a journeyman" yet i havent seen him kick once.

this kind of already happens, as you earn a mastery weapon perk, the animation for that attack changes from someone awkwardly flailing through the air to a decent looking combat maneuver.

Well as a lot of people say, at the time the game was made it would've been a lot more work to put all of that which you mentioned in the game. Especially combat specific thing.

But, I agree with you completely. Cause my usual response is that Bethesda didn't care. They could've done it, cause they made the previous games (who else), they just rushed it and the game came out half-baked. The fighting system isn't the only thing that lacks design.

There is a mod that lets you Dual-wield weapons. Two problems: it's huge, plus the character animation for the dual-wield strike is not very well done. Go see it on the tube and you'll see what I mean. But, that's from a modder. Bethesda could've made it possible to use both hands. How hard can it be , for them? They didn't care.

Also I heard hand-to-hand was better in Morrowind, more forms I think. In Oblivion they decided you would be satisfied with a left and a right. And wow there are special moves, you can spin around like a ballette dancer on steroids and smash people, if only it would actually do some damage. Oh, there's a chance you knock down your enemy or even paralyze them or disarm them. Sure a 1 in 10 chance, kinda. How about none at all. It's interesting that when you whack an enemy it takes about 4-5 special moves from you (if your lucky, if not 10) to actually make those thing happen, but when they hit back there is almost always a 50-50 chance they disarm you. That's fair. I won't even go into NPC levelling.

As someone who is casually familiar with the fighting disciplines of the German longsword, you need not tell me that the fighting style represented in Oblivion leaves much to be desired in both realism and practical sense. I mean, swinging a claymore from side to side with both your feet planted squarely beneath you? Weak.

something i noticed that is wrong with oblivion, at least cosmetically, if it somehow makes sense to someone statistically.
as an example: the glass weapons armor equivalent are Mithril/Elven?! why? that goes along with the whole more weapons rant.

I WANT BETTER HAND TO HAND!

But, I enjoy bar fighting and wouldn't want to lose that stance!

I agree

The perks at each 25% mark were a step in the right direction, they could expand on them and allow you to actually choose from a selection. Eg: when you get to 50% in blade you can choose to be able to disarm with all blades, or you could start to specialise in a type of blade like dagger or shortsword. Specialisaion might mean a bit more damage or you hit a bit quicker. At 75% you could choose specialisation again, or choose better parrying or disarming with all blades, obviously if you specialise every time with dagger, you get very good with that but your general blade skills aren't as hot. Specialising with weaker weapons might open up different strengths (not just damage) to avoid everyone just specialising with the strongest weapon of that type eg dagger is faster, sword blocks better.

Eventually your dagger wielding blade master would do more damage with his knife than a non hammer-specialised master in blunt wielding a 2-h hammer, for example.

I also always felt the TES engine was a bit 'doom-like' in the way you move and attack. This lets combat and immersion down; the new call of juarez (and thief deadly shadows, amongst others) gave you the impression that your character has a body, you can look down and see your feet (thief) and when you stop moving it's not a smooth tram-like stop, you might actually move an extra half step. This awareness of body makes everything a bit more convincing and when coupled with a good combat system, things get very interesting. TES really has to sort out its animations though, if they can couple authentic combat poses and attacks with a bit of believable hit detection physics TES5 will kick ass. Literally

but oblivion is a huge improvement on Morrowind

Excellent job leroy, Oblivion's fighting system is terrible. However, I'm rarely satisfied with RPG fighting systems. I want something very realistic. It's possible, but lotsa work for the devs.




Definitely. I personally know 5 different 'schools'/techniques of wielding swords and other blades, and.....a few, hand to hand techniques. I mean come on Bethesda. Nobody swings a longsword and a claymore in the exact same manner. Weapons, believe it or not, are designed to be wielded with different tactical uses. A long or short sword is designed to be wielded with a shield, and, oddly enough, short swords aren't for slashing. The Romans, they used a short sword, to great effect, as a stabbing weapon. A long sword is more of a stabbing weapon, but only if you can break your opponent's defense.

A claymore though. That's a bit different. First of all, no man is going to spin around wielding a roughly 6 foot or maybe less sword. Just not gonna happen. Knock 'em down, run 'em through.



I'd go further. Certain armor should get bonuses against weapons. I dare you to find me a slashing weapon that can get through chain mail. I also dare you to find me a stabbing weapon that won't go through chain mail. And....fur? Really, come on now. I think it should also be harder to get in a hit on the enemy. Why? Because when you get stabbed by a sword in the torso, you don't get up and walk away. Getting hit with a mace? That's not something you survive either.

Actually chainmail is effective against stabbing weapons too.

Oh i cant believe i forgot the biggest problem of them all. The dagger block.

My wing man newheim and i once had a bottle of tamikas finest when a pretty little thing invited me back to her place. When i got there she pulled a dagger on me, shame, i didnt think id have to plow my axe into her. Now im a pretty buff imperial, not a nord but i mean ive got some hair on my chest. So needless to say i was surprised when she stood there and held her dagger to the side it sent my axe flying back as if i struck a brick wall. Man that girl sure is good with a blade!

yes i agree! but the game over all is so much fun! that youll forget all about fighting issues!

A good soldier with a quality weapon will punch through it. Chain mail's stab protection is alright, but nothing too special. It's not too hard, I've done it several times. Just requires a lot of effort and a specialized weapon.

Uh...apparently we don't.



I've posted a few comments on that too. When you sneak up behind and enemy and stab 'em, either with a dagger or an axe, they shouldn't be able to practically snap around and bash your head in. They should drop dead. Actually, with the mods I use (Stealth Overhaul, yeah yeah yeah, me and the mods again) they do just that. One slash and lights out.

block. yes, yes.
hold a dagger sideways and when someone punches at you they punch at the dagger, then immediately are knocked back for 2 sec.

Well thats an area that needs leeway. If you get stabbed right under your left nipple by a 4" blade you will most likely die. Youll literally drop as soon as you realize youve been stabbed. Maybe they could have a realism setting or something.

COUGH COUGH, difficulty slidCOUGH. hem, ii think I'm coming down with something...

I think it would be hard to capture any realism in simulated combat. I mean, in real-life, a swordsman doesn't bother twirling around whilst disarming someone, or holding up his shield just waiting until his opponent attacks, at which point the foe inevitably staggers backwards, allowing the swordsman to tear into him with repetitive back-and-forth swings. A real fighter can find ways to get around a upheld shield, and DEFINATELY can dispatch of said shield bearer with a single blow.

Real combat would be far more ruthless. A SINGLE blow from a damn claymore on an unguarded enemy ought to cleave him in two. A SINGLE arrow would at least slow the charge of an oncoming bandit. The same goes for the player. Watching my character shrug off endless streams of arrows and occasionally fireballs is ridiculous. But if it were any other way, the game would be either too easy, if enemies died realistically from single strikes, or too hard, if the same went for the player.

I think the combat system is the way it is because it was meant to be tuned for the enjoyment of the casual player, not the realism-Nazi.

Well, if i was ever hit by a claymore id be fine. And an arrow? I eat arrows for breakfast and instead of milk i use whiskey. Sometimes ill mix nails in, adds a nice texture.

However that really isnt what im talking about. Im talking more so of the aesthetics of the fighting system. A little work and that game could have an amazing fighting system.

the fact of the matter is that for TES combat to be ultra realistic it would probably have to become a pure fighting game, such is the complexity of making virtual people act realistically.

Ultimately rpg rules aren't realistic. People in real life don't gain health after doing adventures, a claymore would do the same fatal damage to a still target whether they were 1st level or 50th level

RPGs are simulations of fictitious heroic worlds where Aragorn or Conan battled against the odds and won. They're not simulations of the real world where King Harald died from an arrow in his eye or Briain Boru was slaughtered at prayer after winning the battle of Clontarf.

not true. i would say, if you(or anyone, really) were handed a sword with no prior experience in swordplay, you using it would be like watching the three stooges, where as if you were given months (or even a year or so) in which that sword was the only thing that you had to survive against what is in that fantastic world, you would be exceptionally better at dealing out damage with it.
and another thing about the cosmetic parts of fighting: it is obvious that 1st person is the way the game was made to be played. 3rd was just thrown in as a bonus point for people who wanted it, not as a main feature. as i described about the jumping animation in particular: as first person goes, jumping needs to be instant. now it cant be instant and cosmetically pleasing at the same time. but as this is a 1st person game, it doesnt matter because you never see your feet in the jumping animation anyways. even though they added 3rd person, they are not going to completely revamp the jump mechanics every time you change views, so 3rd must also be instant.

I don't worry too much about 3rd person views or what my feet look like, but the way you move in thief actually is different from the way you move in oblivion. If you're on a narrow ledge it feels like you have to balance cos completing a step might actually take you over the edge if you don't, whereas oblivion movement reminds me of the way a dalek moves. Tomb raider is a good example of the character having 'footsteps' even though it's third person. If you played Tomb Raider in 1st person, there would be a delay if you jumped in mid step, it would only be instant if you timed it right. TES movement isn't simulating a human's physical mechanics, it's not as sophisticated as that. Maybe it should be if the combat system is to be improved. There has been constant criticism from gamers about the animations of the characters over the years, both in the third person and 1st person, perhaps they could address it.

My point wasn't about dealing more/less damage cos you're better/worse at using a weapon; of course an expert is more dangerous than a stooge.
The point was about taking damage when you get struck. Health is something we invented for rpg purposes to simulate fantasy heroes' ability not to die immediately in their highly dangerous worlds. In fantasy a 50th level character could stand in front of a swordsman and take a lot of hits without too much bother. A 1st level character in the same situation has less hp so will die quickly.
In real life, being hit with a sword will screw up your day no matter how combat experienced/'high level' you are, cos health/hp's don't exist in reality in the same way they do in RPGs. That's why RPGs can't be considered realistic, they usually emulate the worlds of books and movies, not the world we live in (see what happens to Arnie in the Last Action Hero)

Maybe im just not explaining my idea. Ill try again.

All i ask of them is an adjustment of the system. I feel as though they didnt put much work into the way it looks. From novice to master all you will ever do is punch left, and right. Oh wait, theres that incredibly lame hammer power move. It would seem to me, that it would be extremely simple to create the animation of a kick. If you understand that, then you can see the rest of my main point.

My gripe is not so much with the damage taken. However, i would adjust that as well.

About the views i use 3rd person. I like to see my character strut around after slaying hordes of his foes. Then i sing to myself in my head "walking tall machine gun man."