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 Post subject: Proper Leveling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:10 pm 
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ES Games: Morrowind GOTYE (Xbox), Oblivion GOTYE (PC)
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I have heard the term used many times, but I don't know how it is done. I have also heard reports of leveling too fast. how is this done? Doe it vary based on the class played? For instance, I made an Imperial that I had to level 30 in no time at all. All my attributes were maxed and most of my skills completed in an incredibly short time. Now a mage on the other hand takes me forever to advance level at all, despite constant use of the appropriate skills. Am I playing the mage wrong as far as leveling is concerned, or is this particular class just slow.


in general my question is what is proper leveling? Secondly, how is it done properly and how can I avoid leveling too fast or slow?

-Venger

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Leveling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:37 pm 
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I don't really think it's referred to so much "proper levelling" as it is "efficient levelling." It basically means getting a +5 multiplier on all the skills you increase at a level up. I've never really bothered with it myself, so someone else could probably explain it in better detail.

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Leveling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:46 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Proper Leveling
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:28 am 
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besides the link above, I find it hard to get 5+ without training,and I try to get 2 x 5+ at least,if the third isn´t any good I just pick luck my self.

There is a mod though, skill progress by fliggerty that helps keep track of it,it is standard in my game nowadays.
without it the old paper and pen works though.

If I want to make things easy I use another mod as well, balmora university to get easier training,some of the master trainers is hard to get to,even dangerous at earlier levels like the illusion trainer,or marksman.
Fliggerty´s mod should be easy to get at pes or his place,don´t remember where I got hold of B-U.
http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/portal.php

Training skills, some of them is easier than others,and of course it depends how your character play,mine brews a lot of potions so alchemy skyrockets,so I usually have that as misc,others can sneak all the time so sneak goes fast,the really slow skill to train is restoration iirc.Armor skills is easy,just let small cratures attack you,rats,slaughterfish and such.Weapon is basically use them and they usually works out fine in the end.

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Leveling
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:49 pm 
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Initiate
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Syn wrote:
For the “Proper Playthrough” thread, my suggestion would be to make your character and play the game naturally and normally and take the skills you want along with whatever level ups and modifiers you get along the way. As for me, the first thing I finally realized is that the whole “efficient leveling” concept and system is fundamentally flawed for one main reason, and I’m both startled and surprised that nobody has caught it before or that it took me so long to even realize it myself.

“Efficient leveling” is about one thing and one thing only, maximizing your attribute multipliers each and every level, each and every step of the way to get the most bang for your buck in hit points, etc, but the simple fact is that it is anything but honestly, really and truly efficient. Consider this one simple issue. It centers on and focuses completely around getting 10 skill increases in 3 different skills for a total of 30 skill level-ups and 3x5 for 15 total attribute modifiers every level.

That’s a 2:1 ratio. You’re getting back only half your skill advancements in attribute points. Now consider this. You have 5 Primary and 5 Secondary skills for a total of 10 skills. If you level up only 1 point in each skill every level, your attribute modifier comes back at x2 meaning you’re getting back a 1:2 ratio or double your skills in attribute points every level instead of half, which is much more truly efficient.

Now I know that would only work out perfectly if there were 10 attributes, but there are actually only 8 for those 10 skills, and only 7 relevant ones because luck isn’t governed by any particular skill, so it has to be excluded, but still.

It’s much more feasible and reasonable to expect that a well-rounded character might get, say, maybe a 1 point increase in a few of their Primary skills governing different attributes and maybe a 2 point increase in the rest and be able to rotate those around during the course of normal game play.

The bottom line is that normal game play and the resulting 1-2 point skill increases you normally get and all the resulting x2 attribute modifiers you get corresponding to those 1 point Primary and Secondary skill increases each and every level is actually much more “efficient” than the so-called “efficient leveling” method.

Maybe the so-called “efficient leveling” method’s only real glaring issue is that the name is misleading because it’s a misnomer, but even getting a 5 point increase in a single skill or combined skills like 2-3 points each in both heavy and medium armor wearing a combined set of both types of armor or one set of armor and spear gets you a x3 attribute increase, which is still better than half and therefore more efficient, although not by much.

I’m posting all this mainly hoping it will help other players avoid making or repeating some of the same mistakes I made and avoid some of the same pitfalls and traps. There’s a lot of good information to be found and had on the forums and wiki, but there’s also some bad advice and practice with some of the hints, tips, tricks and suggestions that are given and made as well, or something that might work well for someone else, but not so well for you. Just something to keep in mind.

Hindsight is always 20/20, or so they say, and in retrospect my former mistakes and previous oversights of letting myself get caught up in popular trends that looked and sounded good on face value, but didn’t really hold up to closer examination in practical application, theory or use seemed glaring, so with this knowledge and fresh new insights in mind I returned to the drawing board with my original ideas back in focus.

Its hard to draw a complete picture just posting snippets here and there in various threads, so I tried to put it all together for an in-depth look at Morrowind under the hood. There’s still the leveling problem. Speaking of which, I made a mistake. My suggestion regarding the “efficient leveling” method was for the “proper leveling” thread, not the “proper playthrough” thread. I might cut and paste that portion to that thread if it’s warranted.

Just to illustrate my point a little clearer, from the same Morrowind wiki article endorsing the “efficient leveling” method.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Level

Quote:
zero skill increases = no multiplier (1 point)
1-4 skill increases = 2x
5-7 skill increases = 3x
8-9 skill increases = 4x
10 or more skill increases = 5x

This shows that getting a 1 point skill increase gives a 2x multiplier, or double your attribute points back for a 1 point investment in skills, or 200%.
2 points, the same 2x breaks even at 100%.
3 point skill increase gets back 2x for 66%.
Even a 5 point skill increase gets back 3x for 60%, but investing 10 skill points for a 5x increase is only a 50% return on your investment makes the “efficient leveling” method the most “inefficient leveling” method in reality.

In other words, worst case scenario, you have a character with a 30 major skill governed by a low 30 attribute score. Through normal gameplay you average between 1-3 skill points or 2 per level on average giving your character back the same 2x attribute modifier, you can raise both skill and attribute to 100 in 35 levels. Using the "inefficient leveling" method, you have to raise 2 sets of skills to 100 to increase the same attribute to 100.

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