DM Discussion

Justice knight · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:38 pm

Lots of different ways to do so- I generally will agree with any character death so long as I think it does them justice (pun intended).
My personal favourites though would be two that Winter said, either a go down swinging way like Boromir or a quick, sudden and completely unexpected one.
I'll never forget this scene from a book I read (can't remember the name ironically) where one of the main characters was killed as they were running from a dragon and it landed on him. Completely unexpected and sudden.

MARS · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:41 pm

Knight Captain Kerr wrote:

Right, so I wanted to talk about GMing stuff and what you guys do. This is the GM discussion after all. Hopefully I don't end up as a GM committing the things I say I dislike. Also, prepare for a lot of text.

First, GMPCs. They are almost always a bad idea The GM doesn't need a PC, they have every single NPC. And trust me, NPCs are great. Having an NPC tagging along with the PCs is fine. But it shouldn't be a situation where the GM basically has a lead player character. Because they tend to end up as the main character and stuff revolves around them. I understand why you want to do it. You run a game because you really want to play it and nobody else is running it. I would love to play in a Cyberpunk RP. But I can't, I'm the GM, not a PC. The PCs should always be the main characters, not just side characters who tag along with the people the GM controls who are the real heroes and the only ones who move the plot. If they aren't the main characters than something is probably going wrong. RPGs (and video games) allow for a freedom that other types of story telling don't allow. Players are going to not do what you wanted them to do, do what you didn't want them to do, try to kill who you don't want to die and flip over the world's rocks and ask loads of questions about how it works that you might not have thought of the answer to. In short they will lay waste to a lot of your plans, so you need to be able to adapt. It's going to happen anyway, so you may as well embrace it when you are running stuff.

Second, getting the PCs together and to actually do stuff in the RP. I pretty much always like to start with my PCs all in the same place. A lot of this falls on PCs, as I said it isn't hard, it is just as simple as having character motivation. ~~Not to blow my own trumpet, but~~ To blow my own trumpet I think I did it okay in S&S. PCs all have a reason to do stuff. Might be to save people, get money or receive a pardon for crimes. I'm fine with how I'm planning on getting the PCs together and to start the plot in World of Darkness. But the Fallout thing I'm doing I'm a lot more iffy on. I need the PCs to:
1. Be new to the area and not know what is going on.
2. Have a reason to go there in the winter when conditions would start to be harsh.
3. Have a reason to be together at the start.
4. Not have too much stuff. In World of Darkness and Fallout I'm actually planning on counting ammo and items and all that stuff. In S&S infinite ammo is fine, but in some other stuff I want to limit it. I don't want players being overpowered but I don't want to limit stuff either. If I said go nuts then in theory somebody could justify in character a guy with power armour, a bozar and loads of other stuff. If that is the case than survival isn't really hard. I really don't like to limit character creation, but if everyone else has more basic stuff and can advance while you start already at the top then what do I do as a GM?

I'm thinking starting it with the PCs going to the place with a caravan. That they will then be planning to deliver stuff and stay there over the winter. But it gets attacked, everything is stolen and the PCs are left for dead. But that might just feel like I'm cheating the players.

Lastly PCs Vs. PCs. If you haven't noticed yet, I love giving players freedom. Part of this is letting the PCs finish the RP without killing anyone. But it also means I'm fine with PCs killing people if they so wish. This includes other PCs. Just remember, choices have consequences.

Reviving old threads.

Thinking it over, having several GMPCs was probably the reason I felt so fatigued from running TA/TA2. The RP was originally just a fun game with friends, so I had to be in it no matter what, but when it grew to be larger, it was just getting in the way, having to be both in the story, directing the story (lol as if that ever happened), having to handle NPCs. It resulted in a ton of really long, disjointed posts. Whenever I do my next open post and play game, I'm going to heartily follow Kerr's advice.

Unionhack · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:19 pm

I think that GMPCs was kinda an issue with Call of the Abyss. But it was also in the spirit of a Fire Emblem lord so I dunno.

I like this thread because I'm constantly paranoid about how I'm running stuff.

Musicman247 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:37 pm

In Hope Falls I had a personal NPC for just about every person that wanted one. It was fun for me, because I love character interaction, but I wonder if it wasn't one of the things that caused the RP to fizzle near the end; not enough player to player interaction.

Kerr · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:53 pm

For a while I've wanted to run an RPG with a rival adventuring party in it. Not an evil adventuring party, just a rival one that's competing with you. Like Blue/Gary in Pokemon, he isn't evil, he's just kind of an [&@%!] and competing with you. So while you're going out trying to do quests they will also be doing quests, maybe the same quests. Or if you don't pick up on a plot hook for a side quest they will and do that quest instead of you and buy all the local shop's potions before you can and rent out the last rooms at the local inn. That kind of stuff.

If I ever end up running some fantasy RP like Dragon Age or Elder Scrolls and the characters are your typical adventurers it's something I'd love to do. It would be almost as if they are other player characters that are playing a different game in the same world as you at the same time.

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:32 pm

Musicman247 wrote:

In Hope Falls I had a personal NPC for just about every person that wanted one. It was fun for me, because I love character interaction, but I wonder if it wasn't one of the things that caused the RP to fizzle near the end; not enough player to player interaction.

I think what caused HF to end up being carried by me and you was the plot and how..... well, it just wasn't there until the very end and it was the pacing. If there were more plot then too many options then it could have been saved. Sadly, i think it was also near the begining of the great RP slowdown featuring Death and the seven sins.

That said, still one of my favourite RPs on UESP. And would be up for sequel.

I know why my RPs failed. Madgod's realm, i put no planning into and it crashed before the tutorial level was over. Gladiator, i think it was doomed from the very start due to how i structured it and it was intended for PC interaction to carry the RP in between matches. When i get around to doing my next RP and i have picked up several tricks as a RPer that i intend to put into the RP, i will aim to avoid repeating the mistakes. That and UESP needs it's first PlayboyRP. :p Joking aside, i do hope to run a RP that is successful one day.

The-Shadow-One · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Thats the thing success isn't a thing in dming. For me success isn't finishing the plot its having the players go away with nice words about the roleplay itself. Eager to try another stab at the world. Tng is my most successful due to it finishing completely but thats only a small part the rest is due to the fact I feel it sticks in peoples head, infectionous.

Though granted I think most if not all of my rps are successful in their own way.

Unionhack · **Posted:** Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:38 pm

I measure success in RP's based on how long lasting they are in people's minds. How big of an impression they make. Which is why I still say V54 was up there as one of the best, despite the poor Cougar joke getting figuratively mauled just like poor Sweeney.

Hissien · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:32 pm

How do you guys make maps like you do?

Kerr · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:46 pm

Okay, my maps aren't good but I'll talk about them anyway because it might help. And I'm currently making World, Country and Local Maps for the Dieselpunk RP I'm making. Starting from the bigger working to the smaller.

I use MS Paint to make my terrible looking maps that aren't even to scale. It works fine I guess. I use colours to differentiate different types of land and areas and then list them in a key below the map. I tend to use the pencil tool when it comes to drawing.

For designing maps I approach it from the perspective of a Geographer, both in terms of humans and physical landscape and how those two things interact with each other. That's probably because I studied it in college. On the large scale, for a world, I take continental drift into account for the world map, all the continents fit together if placed correctly but they drifted apart over many millennia. I also try to think of which climates best suit which areas and ethnicity of the people there which honestly I'm still trying to work out properly and having some difficulty with. I also don't want to make all continents and countries square boxes that fit perfectly within grids. Using the continental drift example, I'm trying (note trying, it's probably not that good, I don't claim I am good at this) to make it look like something which naturally occurs rather than throwing in whatever continents, landscapes and climates wherever.

For smaller scale I think what is the topography of the region like, what is the climate like, what flaura and fauna are there, what are rivers/lakes like. When it comes to human settlements I question where humans would live in this area, how they would arrange these settlements (towns are often build by rivers, are there any holy sites for these people, etc.) How they are governed, how they supply their people with resources (food, fuel, protection, economic factors, etc,) how roads and other forms of transportation are set up, how they interact with neighboring settlements. Also keep history in mind. Like the city I'm making for the RP, the main street at the center of the city is very broad and leads up to a large stone pyramid because the ancient civilization that built this city thousands of years ago made it like that, even now the shape of the city still houses remnants of the past.

If you want to get really overly in depth, you could question who made these maps in the first place and why they made them the way they did. Why is Europe at the center of Maps? Because Europeans made them. Why is Europe so big on maps when it is actually much smaller in comparison to other continents? Because Europeans wanted to make themselves look bigger.

Unionhack · **Posted:** Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:34 am

WoD is over and once again I would like to compliment you, Kerr, on a job well done. I dig the NPC epilogues, and I appreciate that you didn't hold back on how freaking brutal Ash's death was. A job well done, and thank you for the introduction to the setting.

Answer me one thing though: Was Dorian telling Ash about Diablerie a ploy to get her to be a more convenient fall-girl? Easy to blame the Diablerist, right?

Or was it just friendly recommendation?

Kerr · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:09 am

Yeah, it was pretty horrible. Ash was an awful person but still. Damn.

If only that were true, it would make me look far more impressive. But it wasn't, it was partly Dorian asking with curiosity because he had heard other vampires talking about feeding on vampires, partly me as a GM reminding you that such a thing exists in-universe in an non-intrusive way just in case you forgot because it seemed like something Ash would do. However Butler was using yous as the fall guys (the RP is over so I don't mind spilling the beans now.) Dorian was perfectly willing to blow you up along with Cillian but he didn't know if Cillian was in the bar or not. Although that was before you saved his life, after that he wouldn't betray you. Then if anyone came asking Butler any questions he could just blame Ash, say she was eliminating the competition, trying to pit groups against each other in an attempt to become Prince . Unfortunately for Butler and Dorian, Erik found Dorian and dominated him to make him talk. Although Erik's questioning didn't result in him learning about what Ash and Kris did and he unsurprisingly killed Dorian when he was done questioning him.

That Dieselpunk RP is coming along pretty well (I guess) but I'm just awful at naming stuff. Terrible at it, always have been. Sometimes I come up with names I'm happy with, I liked Silicon & Sorcery as the name of that RP when we eventually settled on it or a famous historical figure in the Dieselpunk RP and the original Paladin is called Charlotte Roland (like it's a decent name but also relates to Charlemenge and The Song of Roland which is where our idea of Paladins comes from) which I like. But more often than not I spend ages trying to think of something good. Then when I settle on something I question if it is even any good. Like I've called the main continent in the RP Hearthome. But now I'm like, eh... Then I ask if I'm just looking too much into it and that nobody will care what I call the language these people speak or what this other planet in the solar system is called.

I've spend quite a bit just trying to think of the names for the continents, languages, cultures, countries, cities and religions. I know what they are, what they are like, just not what they are called. Does anyone have good sources for help in naming things?

Unionhack · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:16 am

Name generators, mostly.

I can also recommend a more silly technique, which involves putting something in Google translate; choose English (or whatever) to Esperanto and translate away. Take what you get from a certain word, change a few words around, voila.

Par example,

'Beginning' -> Esperanto = "Komencante". So, we could call a city, "Omenkante". It's not the best example but I'm just throwing this off the top of my head.

Kerr · **Posted:** Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:42 pm

Ho fellow GMs.

How terrible of an idea would running two RPs at the same time be? Because while I'm not finished making that Dieselpunk RP (I've done the main world building/systems stuff already but need to make plans for NPC, plots, that sort of thing) I'm wondering if I should finish making it and then run it at the same time as Fallout or if I should wait and then run the Dieselpunk RP when Fallout ends.

Like back in 2012 running two RPs at the same time would be insane because things would go so fast but now it seems like things move at a speed where it would be doable.

Unionhack · **Posted:** Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:28 pm

I do it, it's not so bad.

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:22 pm

I'm looking for advice on creating RPs. Is it best to write the plot in forms of notes and then come up with the posts during the RP or write it out like one big story then split up into DM posts?

Unionhack · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:41 pm

The latter doesn't really account for potential player action. The first priority should ALWAYS be the freedom of action for the cast of PCs. So, probably notes then posts. That's how I do mine. I have a general plot in mind that can bend around what the PCs do; like Grelok blowing up the Morgiah.

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:00 pm

Cool. Is it a good idea to use sidequests or avoid them until i've got more RP DM experience?

Unionhack · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:06 pm

Up to you, I suppose.

The-Shadow-One · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:57 pm

I always have Story points. Vague little bits of the story that can be changed to fit how the pcs go about their business. They can all go on their own path yet it converges into singular point before splitting again.

Musicman247 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:48 pm

I have the Main Quest goal set, then set up NPCs with different pasts and motives. From there I try and let the PCs tell the story through their actions. Whatever they want to do is how the story plays out.

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:45 am

Disclaimer:I've been given permission by BetaB17 to nercopost and bring it back to life.

I've tried working on two RPs this year. One was XCOM, which keeps getting rewritten. The mechanics are 90% done. The plot, I can't get to flow at all. The other one is a recent decision to do a Sheogorath Realm based RP and I have a query. Is it always best to do the plot first then work out the mechanics around it or the mechanics first? All RPs i've done have failed on here despite me disowning Madgod's Realm and Just looking for advice. How long is too long? Is 2 or 3 acts considered too much for a beginner?(I'll admit, group RPs, i am a beginner in terms of DMing).

Would appericate everyone's thoughts on this.

Really want to get a proper decent RP of mine, going this year.

The-Shadow-One · **Posted:** Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:24 am

Honestly, it's how ever long you take to build your story. I forgot how many 'acts' TNG was but that was my first and only successful roleplay. Also in terms of story to mechanics, I say that mechanics will always and should always take a back seat to plot. It's all nice to have the perfectly designed mechanics, but if the people can't enjoy the story then it's basically worthless...

Just my two cents however.

KingFeraligatr · **Posted:** Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:20 am

I personally focus more on plotting, worldbuilding, working on the basic story, etc. over mechanics. My old MER RP had no mechanics to speak of and would have had all actons' success based on my own interpretations. My in limbo RP for UESP, Pokemon Domination, is not using many numerical mechanics barring the Level of the Pokemon. I figure things will be better if I as the GM decided what happens based on what is going on, how people are feeling, the stuff the characters are good at (told to me in the character sheet or developed over the RP), etc. It's easier on me and lets me focus on other things in the RP (also, I'm lazy). I can't see myself using even shallow "real mechanics" any time soon (the two ME RPs I may run on my own forums won't have any real mechanics). But that's my two cents. You do what works for you.

The SheoDovah · **Posted:** Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:11 pm

The-Shadow-One wrote:

Honestly, it's how ever long you take to build your story. I forgot how many 'acts' TNG was but that was my first and only successful roleplay. Also in terms of story to mechanics, I say that mechanics will always and should always take a back seat to plot. It's all nice to have the perfectly designed mechanics, but if the people can't enjoy the story then it's basically worthless...

Just my two cents however.

That was what i was thinking. Just wanted to get other opinions and advice on it.

Because of Kerr's CASPIE system, would it be worth going against the grain and go back to very basics as my first proper RP that has had time put into it? Or just adopt CASPIE or use TES's Attributes?

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