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 Post subject: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:17 pm 
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A friend told me that sneak is extremely overpowered when you get to higher level. and its pretty much impossible to die. is this true? if so is there a way I can just not get all the perks for sneak. so It can still be a challenge?


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:31 pm 
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he probably means the perks allow you to disappear even when spotted and inflict horrendous damage in stealth attacks, so if you think your game is going to be spoiled by any perks, sneak or otherwise

don't buy them - the choice is yours

and if you find you did buy a perk which has unbalanced your character

don't use it

tbh most high level characters are pretty indestructable and that's why when the dlc comes out your vanilla Skyrim godlike character may well get pwned by the new beasties, that's what happened in Mw and Ob

but if you do want a challenge with a fully perked up sneaker, go into a mission with no armour, no potions and only a pickaxe for a weapon, i'd say that would be pretty hair raising at hard difficulty


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Are the perks the only thing that make sneak overpowered? like being invisible by simply croutching?


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:16 pm 
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I don't know man -- I got my sneak up to 100 just by doin' what I do and I find it's fairly easy to do whatever's needed without putting the perks in. I suppose I could up the difficulty (It's set at whatever the default is) but I find it equally challenging and fun where it's at.

I hope what you're sayin' about the DLC or expansions resets the table a bit in terms of absolutely NEEDING those perks.


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Well A.I sometimes is stupid, the big thing that makes it OP is it dose 2x 3x and up to 24x-48x or something, and if your using a bow you can get at least two hits on them.
add poisons, enchanted weapons, and what not. You kill everything, but then again, remember that’s what sneak is, killing them before they see you.

I would not call it over powered, it dose what it is spouse to.


And archer is also over powered by that logic, also block, one handed, two handed, they all can make it where your unstoppable

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:35 pm 
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I guess i mean unrealistically overpowered, I heard the crouching perk made it so whenever you crouch you become invisible and no one can see you.


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Yes, but thats at lv 100, all of them have things like that at lv 100

what it really dose is this

Quote:
Crouching stops combat for a moment and forces distant opponents to search for a target.

distant not close up.
of couse with that high level the A.I gos ehyhrte

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Wolfie wrote:
Yes, but thats at lv 100, all of them have things like that at lv 100

what it really dose is this

Quote:
Crouching stops combat for a moment and forces distant opponents to search for a target.

distant not close up.
of couse with that high level the A.I gos ehyhrte

It actually does work close up. In fact, it's one of the cheapest exploits in the game. Just crouch, and attack, and you'll assassinate whoever you're attacking.

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Except, it works with out the perk, get to level 100 or 90 something and crouch and I find I STILL can hide easily when it comes to up close guys.

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:54 pm 
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I don't think it's necessarily overpowered. As others have said, the level 100 perks are pretty powerful across the board.

I'm not sure if sneaking up all the time is fun though. But that's just me. I'd rather charge in swinging a warhammer or blasting spells then sneaking around one guy at a time.


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:35 pm 
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I don't think sneak is overpowered at all. The point of gaining perks in it IS to make you a badass. If you choose to not take those perks, then fine I personally think you lose out on the experience of honing your skill. Practice makes perfect, it would be like any skill you practice in the real world. It just gets better with experience. You do not become invisible per say, it is just more difficult for your enemies to find you...but isn't that the point of having a stealth character? I don't understand why people say certain skills are overpowered in this game. It sounds like a "I'm bored" pov and there are ways to make Skyrim not boring. Play on master and take the HUD out...makes sneak much more interesting. And yes, it does work up close too. My assassin takes out enemies in the heat of battle without them even knowing she is there, while my follower and summon are distracting them. It doesn't always work, depends on who I'm fighting so it isn't always "easy".

My mage is pretty high up there with full destruction and conjuration and I get enemies that consume a good amount of my magicka when I fight them sometimes...and I am strategic about how to use magicka. The enemies are the ones overpowered as you get up higher, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:54 am 
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I only got the perks on the right side, as I agree with Todd regarding killing in one blow when sneaking up on them. In Oblivion I'd lower the difficulty when sneaking through dungeons because I hated how I managed to get at their back and then I wouldn't even kill them. Then a huge battle would start and all the bandits in the cave would come rushing: so what was the point of sneaking? Now it makes sense. Although I find quite stupid how the enemies just ignore an attack after a while.
"Arrow flies and misses."
«What was that?!»
Two bandits look around.
«It was nothing.»
"Other miss."
«Did you hear that?»
"Arrow gets bandit in the head. He drops dead."
«What was that?! Must have been my imagination.»
"Bandit starts talking to his friend again, ignoring how he's now a corpse. Soon after he joins him in the Void."
I'd rather have the AI make them search for the player or at least move from the arrows' trajectory.


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:23 am 
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FORKFARM wrote:
I don't know man -- I got my sneak up to 100 just by doin' what I do and I find it's fairly easy to do whatever's needed without putting the perks in. I suppose I could up the difficulty (It's set at whatever the default is) but I find it equally challenging and fun where it's at.

I hope what you're sayin' about the DLC or expansions resets the table a bit in terms of absolutely NEEDING those perks.


i think perks need to be carefully chosen, cos they are your super hero abilities

and yes, if previous dlc is anything to go by, the monsters will be a fair bit tougher, and perhaps being able to disappear after killing one enemy will be vital in some circumstances.. the perks certainly present the devs with a creative opportunity so i wouldnt mind them putting in an encounter or two where they test them to the extreme


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:47 am 
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horridholman24 wrote:
I guess i mean unrealistically overpowered, I heard the crouching perk made it so whenever you crouch you become invisible and no one can see you.

...which makes it irrelevant when you are fighting falmer because they are blind.

No,it's definitely not overpowerd because it does what it's supposed to do.

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:39 pm 
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sneak was worse in oblivion, you could sneak right infront of someone in a lit area, i think its actually a little bit harder to sneak in skyrim


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:07 pm 
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I think sneak gets a little silly after 60

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:32 pm 
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horridholman24 wrote:
Are the perks the only thing that make sneak overpowered? like being invisible by simply croutching?


The way you use that perk, really. If you learn to time it just right, you can fire an arrow just as you go invisible and get sneak attacks on practically any enemy, even if you were previously engaged in combat.

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:50 am 
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Dohvakiin2012 wrote:
I don't think sneak is overpowered at all. The point of gaining perks in it IS to make you a badass. If you choose to not take those perks, then fine I personally think you lose out on the experience of honing your skill. Practice makes perfect, it would be like any skill you practice in the real world. It just gets better with experience. You do not become invisible per say, it is just more difficult for your enemies to find you...but isn't that the point of having a stealth character? I don't understand why people say certain skills are overpowered in this game. It sounds like a "I'm bored" pov and there are ways to make Skyrim not boring. Play on master and take the HUD out...makes sneak much more interesting. And yes, it does work up close too. My assassin takes out enemies in the heat of battle without them even knowing she is there, while my follower and summon are distracting them. It doesn't always work, depends on who I'm fighting so it isn't always "easy".

My mage is pretty high up there with full destruction and conjuration and I get enemies that consume a good amount of my magicka when I fight them sometimes...and I am strategic about how to use magicka. The enemies are the ones overpowered as you get up higher, IMO.


Todd Howard himself said they sought for a balance between increasing the character's skill and the player's skill. Like the player will need to practice sneak until level 100 and will get good at hiding, evading enemies, tactical assassinations, etc., and the perks help out proportionally. For instance, the character gets better at blocking more and more damage as he levels up, and the player gets better and better at timing his blocks and bashes. Both need to improve for successful utilization of the skill, resulting in heroic OP-ness. :D

I like to imagine that last sneak perk as an assassin or thief that is SO sneaky that he can toy with his victims. Which is exactly what happens. Like when in a movie a warrior swings a huge weapon at the assassin and he dodges, spins behind him, and the warrior loses track of him because he's so quick and quiet. then you hear the assassin's voice echo throughout the cave....and he lunges out and strikes again! I love it :) it just seems stupid because you're not actually doing those things. You're just crouching in front of a bandit who goes "Must've been my imaginashun 0.o"

I just use my imagination to justify and coolify it.

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:15 am 
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tatortodd22 wrote:
Todd Howard himself said they sought for a balance between increasing the character's skill and the player's skill. Like the player will need to practice sneak until level 100 and will get good at hiding, evading enemies, tactical assassinations, etc., and the perks help out proportionally. For instance, the character gets better at blocking more and more damage as he levels up, and the player gets better and better at timing his blocks and bashes. Both need to improve for successful utilization of the skill, resulting in heroic OP-ness. :D


This - player's skills - was true in Oblivion and it is true in Skyrim, too. When I was writing a guide to Oblivion, I emphasized that taking real fights instead of grinding is necessary to develop player's abilities. Assuming you are a first time player and you have grinded your skills, it is very probable that you cannot use them in real situations. For this purpose, I would heavily suggest players knowingly try different means in real fights; for example, you decide to use Fortify One-Handed potion or Disarm shout in your next fight. If you have never used some means in fights, they does not cross in your mind when you would need them.

If you have already played Skyrim, you can easily grind your character's skills, as you are already yourself skilled to use them.


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:41 am 
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It IS overpowered. Once you get some perks or some training you can easily sneak up on everyone, stand in front of them looking in their faces, and still get sneak-attacks. Just like oblivion. BUT its fun, if you don't just run in front of them without being detected, but try to be real assassin-like.


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:15 am 
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BvBPL wrote:
I don't think it's necessarily overpowered. As others have said, the level 100 perks are pretty powerful across the board.

I'm not sure if sneaking up all the time is fun though. But that's just me. I'd rather charge in swinging a warhammer or blasting spells then sneaking around one guy at a time.


You can laugh maniacally at your enemies as they fall down one by one and they *always fail to find you.

*Not always, this is what gets frustrating, they can get proprioception (the natural ability to sense an a presence) and get you on the spot, especially dragons, which pose the greatest challenge to stealth.

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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:37 pm 
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the description of the perk is that you disappear for "enemies at distance"

don't have the perk myself, so not sure if this makes a difference

what makes sneak fun for me is what happens to my character when it fails.. there's a risk there which makes it more exciting than most skills, esp for my characters who tend not to have developed much tankiness if they have been sneakers


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Sneak isn't overpowered at all. Regardless of the skill level, the entire stealth factor relies on a huge number of things, lighting being foremost. IMO on my lvl 68 Nightblade or my lvl 25 assassin on master difficulty, if I'm outside and it's daytime, sneaking is pretty much a non-option. My assassin relies on shadowmere and my Nightblade has other skills to rely upon. When your sneak is high level, you are basically unstoppable in the dark with a decent dagger, but can only run when a dragon or a bear sees you on your travels, unless you have other means of taking care of it.


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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: sneak overpowered?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Sneak is about as OP as Smithing or Enchanting or illusion.

If you get your primary weapon skill up, and your defenses straight you can forget sneak altogether and still oneshot half the things you run into without the damage multiplier of backstab/assassinblade/sneakattack. And I don't mean decapitations.

Maxing skills will inevitably make you OP somehow, especially if you grab perks.


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