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 Post subject: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:53 am 
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I think I ruined my first characters because I started puchasing perks for too many skills. It might have been a habbit left over from Oblivion.

In Oblivion, you could select 7 skills. I kind of thought it'd be about the same in Skyrim - that a thief, for example, should select perks from all 6 perk skills (sneak, light armor, archery, pickpocketing, lockpicking, speech - and you'd even need the first set of 5/5 perks from one handed for your daggers). Not so.

Now, granted, I was well aware that a focused character is going to be much more effective than a "jack of all trades master of none" character. But I didn't mind. As it is, I play the game on master difficulty and like a challenge. So I had no problem spreading out my skills - I new I'd be weak early on, but thought that it'd pay off and I'd be stronger at a high level. Not so.

Each skill has about 13 perks. Bethesa say they've designed the game as a level 1 - 50 game. Although it's possible to get to level 81, it's unlikely you will. So at level 50, you only have 50 perks. That's not more than 4 skills.

So I had to restart, realizing I would not "come into my prime" until lvel 65 or so. Did anyone else stretch too far?

New characters I make will only have about 3 and a half skills. I know you don't need to purchase EVERY perk to get what you want out of the skill, but in most cases you need most of them, as the best perks are at the top.

What do other's think?


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:56 am 
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I have no problem playing on master using 9 skills

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:10 am 
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Wolfie wrote:
I have no problem playing on master using 9 skills
Care to elaborate?

9 skills, that's over 90 perks. So you're obviously using very basics of these skills.


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:22 am 
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My current character Im making will be using around 12 skills

and yes I only get the skills that matter

Example - Experimenter in Alchemy is a 3 point perk that does nothing

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:41 am 
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Im not the kind of guy to sit down and do any math or anything, so I don't know how optimized it is, but my characters tend to have 3-4 skills that are being maxed out as much as can be, and maybe 2-3 that I go for half of the tree.

But I will increase any skill that I happen to want to use for a given character. My current guy has a fairly decent sneak, but has no perks invested in it.

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:58 am 
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Jaime Gemstone wrote:
Care to elaborate?

9 skills, that's over 90 perks. So you're obviously using very basics of these skills.


I dont plan to master evrey single one

one handed, hevey and light amour, block, smith, enchant, desturction, resteration, Archery

one handed I dont need the mace or axe bouns as I use only swords, that takes 6 off right there. Arhcery, I dont get the slow down when you zoom in, thats 2 perks there.

I dont use the dual weildin so thats 2-3-4 perks, dont remember really, I dont use block much compared to the others so its the slowest and dont use it to block arrows at ALL thats one perk.

so we have
9 perks off for sure and 2-3-4 more off just form mermory.
either way thats over ten perks off form the start and if I go look more then likely I will find more I dont need, and if there is one that has higher levels that I dont want but I need to get to where I want I just spend one on it, so there is another one perk or so missing, what it comes down to is a very good player through, IMO

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:11 am 
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I carefully pick skills when spending perks on them.

My character uses light armor, sneak, one handed, archery, lockpicking, speech, restoration, smithing and enchanting. Other skills are not main priority for me, but I use them from time to time.

Even in those "main" skills, I don't invest points in everything. Example - I don't need bonus for macec, because I use daggers. I don't need to get twice as many arrows from dead targets, because I have 800 arrows in inventory and increasing. I don't invest in the +40% (60/80/100) in armor, one handed and others, because I haven't need to and I don't need to do now. I don't have the possibilitz to create "wax" key, because I don't feel like I need it.

If you think about it you will eventually see what you really need/want ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:21 am 
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until around 20th level, i pretty much only perked heavy armour, block, one handed, a bit of lock picking, bit of alchemy, and smithing (i also had the restore one but that's cos i was always using the basic cure spell)

i have now maxed smithing and branched more into light armour, destruction, alchemy (now around 34th level)

this is my first character and they tend to be combat/stealth/bit of magic, but also i like to test new things out

so I have chosen perks which are useless to me but you learn by these choices

i know exactly what you mean tho, i think we'll be looking at maybe 1 or 2 skills nearly maxed out perk wise and another 3 -4 with a solid perk investment, the perk trees will be vital to planning future characters - but the way the trees are constructed, maxing out will not be always necessary


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:42 am 
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Conjuration, Destruction, Heavy Armor, Restoration, Smithing, One-handed and a bit of Enchanting. Out of these, the only skills I will be buying all the perks in is probably Heavy Armor. I can ignore large swaths of the Conjuration skill as I only use it to summon Bound weapons (part of the roleplaying experience), I won't overdo it with Enchanting because being overpowered isn't fun, I don't use Wards in Restoration so that's a few perks less, in Destruction I only use Fire magic (again, roleplaying), I really only use the Bound sword so that's no dual-wielding or axe/mace perks and in Smithing I ignore the entire Light armor side of the tree. Which means I'll probably be done fitting my character with all the perks I really need before I've even reached level 50.

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:36 pm 
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I just started my Wood Elf, but so far I've used One-Handed, Archery, Sneak, Lockpick, Restoration, Light armour, Alchemy and Illusion.
I'm gonna actively ignore Smithing/Enchanting this time.
Pavouk106 wrote:
I don't invest in the +40% (60/80/100) in armor
I'm the opposite. :P I'm using light armour, but I don't wanna wear a helmet, so I'm gonna stick to the basic perk and not branch it out at all.

Using so many skills so early on is pretty crazy. First time I was a mage, almost exclusively using Destruction and Alteration, never took damage so Restoration was stunted and next character I just used Heavy Armour for a long time.
I was level 8 leaving Bleak Falls Barrow without having done anything else. O.o

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:19 pm 
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same as above with regard to helmet, just putting points in agile defender,
i dont plan on maxing out any perk tree, none of my skills have trees my char would find useful to max,
only top tier perks i want are perfect touch in pickpocket and two effects in enchanting,
maybe the double summon in conjuration, but i'll be past lvl fifty by then so its more of a luxury,

im lvl 48 now and my main skills are

two handed - max barbarian (soon), then as far as sweep with both charge and the other one on the way, no weapon specialization
sneak - 1 rank in the upgradable, then as far as silent roll, no backstab
alteration - as far as expert, with max resist magic + double cast
pickpocket - 1 rank in upgradable, then as far as perfect touch, with deep pockets
enchanting - 3 ranks in upgradable then as far as two effects (next level up), also as far as soul siphon

i also have points in light armor (3 or 4), conjuration (3), alchemy (2), speech (2)
also i use the hell out of lockpicking but didnt think the tree was worthwhile.
i play on expert and im pretty happy with that spread, given that the points in pickpocket and speech are more for rp purposes.


Last edited by umber hulk on Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:25 pm 
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With my playstyle skill-ups tend to spread to many skills, and I tend to invest perks to several skills. My current character is a shield + sword melee fighter, and my goal was to investigate the crafting skills. I started with light armor, changed to heavy ones at level around 40, and later (around level 60) I have not yet been able to decide which one I like more. I have also used bow and stealth, and I couldn't help Speech and Lockpicking to raise. Nowadays I have started using more magic. Here are some skills and how many perks I have invested in them (all numbers sort of approximations, I have no access to the game ATM), around level 60 (played at Master):

Smithing (lvl 100, 9 perks): All other perks than Glass Smithing. I first took Elven, then I changed to heavy side, and just lately took Advanced Armor.
Enchanting (lvl 100, 8 perks): 5/5 Enchanter, Insightful & Corpus Enchanter, Extra Effect.
Alchemy (lvl 55, 4 perks): 1/5 Alchemist, Physician, Poisoner, Benefactor. I started using Alchemy quite late, as I had big difficulties to get strong enough potions & poisons for real use.

One-Handed (lvl 100, 7 perks): 5/5 Armsman; I took Savage Strike via Fighting Stance (2 perks) only to be able to see decapitation. I have not wanted to specialize to any weapon class.
Two-Handed: Not used.
Block (lvl 85, 6 perks): 1/5 Shield Wall, Quick Reflexes, Power Bash, Deflect Arrows, Elemental Protection and Block Runner. Many of the block perks are "game-changing", and I really needed to try them out.
Light Armor (lvl 95, 5 perks): 5/5 Agile Defender. I have not been able to justify others.
Heavy Armor (lvl 95, 5 perks): 5/5 Juggernaut. I have not been able to justify others.
Archery (lvl 85, 5 perks): 5/5 Overdraw. I really only need just raw power, to be able to get one-shot stealth kills in certain circumstances. EDIT: And to get dragons landing quicker...
Sneak (lvl 80, 5 perks): 1/5 Stealth, Muffled Movement, Backstab, Deadly Aim - Muffled Movement and Deadly Aim were my targets, but I needed to take some extra to reach them.

Alteration (approx. 45): No perks, just started used it (got Detect Life).
Restoration (approx. 45): Novice perk, which I took in the early game to make healing spell cheaper. No other perks, currently I don't use it much, instead I make & use potions.
Conjuration (approx. 60): No perks. Conjuration skill has got lots of skill-ups as I have used Soul Trap to get souls for enchanting and recharging. I have thought to make more use for Conjuration, although Sanguine Rose has fulfilled most needs for a decoy & fighting partner.
Destruction (approx. 25): No perks, not used.
Illusion (approx. 25): No perks, not used.

Lockpicking (lvl 75): No perks, but it is practically impossible to not to get skill-ups, if you have obsession to see what is behind locked doors and inside locked chests.
Pickpocket (lvl 20): No perks. I have only done one pickpocketing action.
Speech (lvl 70): No perks. It is impossible not to get skill-ups, if you sell your loot frequently.


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Sneak: all but dagger bonus and a couple points on the initial 5-pointer
Archery: all but the slowing time perk
One-handed: Only skills affecting a single sword, and not all of them at that
Block: all but time slow (but not yet at 100)
Light Armor: started building this one up after the other four were basically stuck for a bit, and my butt was getting whooped. Will probably max out if I can find the perks to do so.

I'm at level 46 or 47 now. (I keep forgetting what level my character is and picking the wrong number; I think I said I was 49 the other day when I was still 45.)

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:37 am 
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Talamare wrote:
My current character Im making will be using around 12 skills

and yes I only get the skills that matter

Example - Experimenter in Alchemy is a 3 point perk that does nothing
There's one important things that you guys need to remember that I think a lot of people are over looking.

Each time you level up, you require more experience to reach the next level. The higher the skill is, the more experience you get when you increase that skill. What this means is if you use a large amount of different skills then at a higher level, you're going to have a lot of trouble leveling up. For example, let's say you're at level 30 and have been using only 4 different skills (pretty much), this means that all these skills will be at like 60 or 70 or so. This means that you'll get a lot of experience each time you increase them and level up quickly. This is good. But let's say you've been increasing 12 different skills. You're at level 30, but all your skills are only at 45 or so. Not only are you going to be having trouble with the fiends, but you're going to level slow as [&@%!] given your skills are so low, you'll need to increase way more skills in order to raise level than the previously mentioned character would have to. In other words, it's inefficient.

I'd like to hear from someone who has made a high level character using a dozen skills evenly. How hard is it to level up? How much trouble to you have with the fiends?

At the end of the day, this is the Elder Scrolls, and no one can tell you what to do. But I think it's not wise to use too broad a amount of skills. Plus, you don't need to - save things for the replay. Without being able to purchase a decent amount of perks for each skill you use when you're using 12 skills, they're going to be pretty mediocre anyway. Like I said, jack of all trades and master of none. And no dragon slaying the likes of me...


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:46 am 
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Jaime Gemstone wrote:
... you'll need to increase way more skills in order to raise level than the previously mentioned character would have to.
Wouldn't the difference be offset just by the fact that you're already using more skills? O.o

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:47 am 
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Jaime Gemstone wrote:
Talamare wrote:
My current character Im making will be using around 12 skills

and yes I only get the skills that matter

Example - Experimenter in Alchemy is a 3 point perk that does nothing
There's one important things that you guys need to remember that I think a lot of people are over looking.

Each time you level up, you require more experience to reach the next level. The higher the skill is, the more experience you get when you increase that skill. What this means is if you use a large amount of different skills then at a higher level, you're going to have a lot of trouble leveling up. For example, let's say you're at level 30 and have been using only 4 different skills (pretty much), this means that all these skills will be at like 60 or 70 or so. This means that you'll get a lot of experience each time you increase them and level up quickly. This is good. But let's say you've been increasing 12 different skills. You're at level 30, but all your skills are only at 45 or so. Not only are you going to be having trouble with the fiends, but you're going to level slow as [&@%!] given your skills are so low, you'll need to increase way more skills in order to raise level than the previously mentioned character would have to. In other words, it's inefficient.

I'd like to hear from someone who has made a high level character using a dozen skills evenly. How hard is it to level up? How much trouble to you have with the fiends?

At the end of the day, this is the Elder Scrolls, and no one can tell you what to do. But I think it's not wise to use too broad a amount of skills. Plus, you don't need to - save things for the replay. Without being able to purchase a decent amount of perks for each skill you use when you're using 12 skills, they're going to be pretty mediocre anyway. Like I said, jack of all trades and master of none. And no dragon slaying the likes of me...


Ironically my dozen skill character just hit level 30, My combat skills are fairly low (around the mid 30s), which does make fights more interesting (I hate it when youre able to 1-2 shot enemies), however Im still leveling fairly fast, maybe Ill only begin to see the effects of what you said at 40 or 50

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:13 am 
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I'm at lv 25 with the one I said, he has no problems, a bit hardar to kill others but the game is kind of easy anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Jaime Gemstone wrote:
I'd like to hear from someone who has made a high level character using a dozen skills evenly. How hard is it to level up? How much trouble to you have with the fiends?


It is not that hard, as you also gain skill-ups from wider set of skills, assuming of course that you are continuing to use all those skills.


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:54 am 
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The Dog Whisperer wrote:
Jaime Gemstone wrote:
... you'll need to increase way more skills in order to raise level than the previously mentioned character would have to.
Wouldn't the difference be offset just by the fact that you're already using more skills? O.o
In theory. But I don't think it's going to work that way when you actually try it.


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:56 am 
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Talamare wrote:
Ironically my dozen skill character just hit level 30, My combat skills are fairly low (around the mid 30s), which does make fights more interesting (I hate it when youre able to 1-2 shot enemies), however Im still leveling fairly fast, maybe Ill only begin to see the effects of what you said at 40 or 50

Well let me know. I'm interested to know if leveling does become difficult. If you hit your kind of nigh max level (before leveling becomes too hard) without increasing all your necessary skills to 100.

I'm starting a new character. I'm just using light armor and two handed for the first part of the game. That's all. I'll use some other skills later on, when I get to the dark brotherhood I imagine. But so far, I'm unstaoppable given my two skills are just so high.


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:05 am 
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MaKo wrote:
Jaime Gemstone wrote:
I'd like to hear from someone who has made a high level character using a dozen skills evenly. How hard is it to level up? How much trouble to you have with the fiends?


It is not that hard, as you also gain skill-ups from wider set of skills, assuming of course that you are continuing to use all those skills.
That's the thing - you are "using more skills" really? You can't use destruction, two handed, one handed, sneal and archery all at the same time. You can use them all in the same dungeon, but not really in the same fight, so to say. So in the end, you're only charging each skill up a very little bit per dungeon. It's not focused. But I'd like to hear what people who do it say.,


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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:26 am 
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Quote:
You can't use destruction, two handed, one handed, sneal and archery all at the same time
no but you ca use them enough to make it work, I've done it pretty well, the main reasso why is
destrcuio and one handed together

bow for tough\weak enemeys
and two handed for the boss
it works fine for me.

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:39 pm 
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I'm going pretty good on my two-skill-only character. Heavy Armor and Blocking. I am not allowed to sell or buy anything. I can't pick locks, use any form of persuasion, smith or improve armor, etc.

My only forms of damage are shield-bashing and Thu'um. Deadly Bash is quite a necessary perk, and the Amulet of Talos is probably my most valuable piece of equipment.

Most fights basically go "Yol Toor Shuul", shield bash, shield bash, shield bash, shield bash, "Yol Toor Shuul", Stamina Potion, Shield bash, etc.

I have a full set of Orcish armor from the ex-chief of Largashbur, and use the Spellbreaker as my shield. Slap on the Ring of Namira and the Amulet of Talos, and you've got yourself a pretty survivable character that takes her sweet time killing things. Some of the fights with Boss Draugr or Dragon Priests get pretty hairy, though, since it takes so long to kill them that they can start to deal a good amount of damage.

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:13 pm 
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I used to pick perks in lockpicking. Then I realized that defeated the point of lock picking.

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 Post subject: Re: How many skills do you use?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:40 am 
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Perks increase your skills and how effective they are, right? Get high level enchanting, and you can basically make your own perks with enchanted armour/clothes.


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