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Now, now, let's not take things personally or take to insulting others, or arguing. Friendly discussion--about a game.

...Man, whichever Jarl runs Markarth, they suck. Either would be stupid enough to allow the Forsworn to infiltrate the city, and harsh enough/bad with guard recruitment that they have corrupt guards and such. Plus, ahh, the Silverbloods are just...not good people.

Like I said before, some Dark Elves would be productive members of Windhelm society (and some Nords wouldn't be). It's quite clear from the in game evidence that Ulfric doesn't care about the Dark Elves regardless of how productive they are. He also seems to care about Nords regardless of how unproductive they are. It's crystal clear racism. Reason I'm repeating this is because you said, "They don't give him much reason to care..." I'm trying to establish that he cares about Nords, and doesn't care about Dark Elves. It seems to have very little to do with who "gives him a reason to".

However, I think our values are just different anyway. I think it's Ulfric's job to care about all citizens, not just the ones who give him a reason to. Consider that a country will get nothing in return for caring for citizens who are too old or sick to work. Consider that there is no financial reason to give a long/life sentence instead of the death penalty. Consider that if immigrants were accepted only on the basis of how much a country would get in return, the only ones allowed in would be fit, young, and skilled. Consider that it's not really in a country's interest to investigate crimes committed against homeless people. These are all true, but I personally think that all these groups of people still deserve to be cared for. Similarly, I believe that even though the Dark Elves don't pay taxes, and even if the average Dark Elf isn't a productive member of society, crimes committed against them should still be investigated, law enforcement should protect them, and all other benefits granted to regular citizens should be theirs. It makes absolutely no sense financially, but that's just how I personally think a country should be (though I would make them pay taxes :p...).

Would you care to provide an example of such in-game evidence. Also, I think it's worthwhile to mention that the only beggar in Windhelm happens to be a Nord. I don't see him helping her over anyone else, do you? Also, the 'butchers' last killing was a Nord, and the guard specifically tells you they don't have the manpower to investigate. I have yet to see anyone provide evidence, solid evidence, that shows Ulfric is racist. All I have seen are people use Brunwulf's word, who's motivations are somewhat sketchy, and nothing else.

I agree, Ulfric may be a little biased, but he isn't racist.
I still haven't voted, I really can't decide what is best to beat the Dominion.

DikaSmausha, assuming you mean to say that Ulfric is biased on the basis of race, the two terms are mutually inclusive. If he's a little biased (on the basis of race), then he is definitely a little racist racist.

I just had a walk around Windhelm to see what people had to say (and I think I noticed two Nord beggars).

The culture of racism in Windhelm was clear. Many Dunmer commented on it and provided examples, and many Nords made no attempt to hide their contempt for the Dunmer. However, only a few Dunmer commented on Ulfric specifically. Not surprisingly, none of them have anything good to say about him. Malthyr Elenil says, "If it [the Grey Quarter] looks to you like an impoverished slum, that's because it is. Ulfric prefers that we live in squalor. He has nothing but disdain for anyone who isn't a Nord." Ambarys Rendar holds similar views, saying, "Things have been a lot worse around here since Ulfric took over." If Ulfric is killed, both also comment on how things have improved. However, closest thing to an example of his behaviour is also provided by Ambarys Rendar, when he says, "I tried to get Ulfric to even come down here to see the squalor, but the High Lord of His Mightiness couldn't find the time." That, and Brunwulf's claim are the only two example of people talking about Ulfric's behaviour that I can find.

However, I'm inclined to believe the claims that he doesn't care about the Dunmer for a few reasons:
The racism in his city does not reflect well upon him. If he did care about the Dunmer, I would expect him to do something about it.
Despite the Dunmer being a hot topic in Windhelm, Ulfric says nothing about them, which indicates to me that he generally just ignores them.
Many express that Ulfric doesn't care about the Dunmer, and while they provide little evidence, there doesn't seem to be much opposition to this viewpoint. That is, I don't hear anyone claiming that he does care about the Dunmer equally.
Ulfric's housecarl, Galmar Stone-Fist, expresses some questionable views regarding elves and beast races, saying, "I'm a man. Skyrim is man's homeland. That's a fact. A fact I'm proud of." The fact that Galmar is so close to Ulfric also reflects badly on him.
Most of the Nords who dislike the Dunmer are aligned with the Stormcloaks. They seem to believe that Ulfric represents their views of the Dunmer.

So Brunwulf's claim that, "Ulfric refuses to send aid to the Khajiit caravans and non-Nord towns that have been raided by bandits, even though he is "the first to sound the horn" when Nord villages are being threatened." - which is clear racism - I think is quite likely to be true.

The only example that I can think of of Ulfric being neutral is in his dealings with the player. From that, I would assume that his approval of other races is highly conditional, while his approval of Nords is either unconditional, or far less conditional.

Has there been some deleted posts or something?

Anyway, I am with Archer that there aren't really any specific indisputable examples of straight up racism from Ulfric himself. There are also Dark Elves who have dialogue that indicates they don't see their treatment the same way as the others, and one such elf comes off as though he's sick of listening to the others complain about it.

Also Moeboid, you may just at the end of the day be a more tolerant person than myself. I tend to see the worst in people can can pretty much see justification for any alleged ill treatment of the Dark Elves in Windhelm. Some of these points we'll just have to disagree on. Always seems to be the case in these type of threads that the Stormcloak followers have to prove Ulfric's purity beyond any reasonable person or the whole cause is somehow invalid. It's like Ulfric turned his head towards the grey-quarter when he sneezed = definite racism. Vvardenfell erupts and the Argonians invade Morrowind (As far as I am aware while Morrowind is still counted as a province of the Empire) and the Empire does nothing to help them = not in any way racism.

I don't think any posts have been deleted. At least, I haven't noticed any.

Anyway, I just want to state again what my position is on the war. I said it in my first post in this thread, but people's perception of me has probably been skewed by the fact that I'm debating Stormcloak supporters. My position is that I don't even support the war. I support the Empire's more accepting and multicultural vision for Skyrim, but many of the people in charge came across as power hungry and incompetent. In that way, Ulfric's cause is noble, but I em extremely concerned about the culture of racism and xenophobia that would follow in his wake. Many Nords support him, believing that he represents their racist and xenophobic views, and many minorities express that racism has become worse since Ulfric's uprising.

So I don't support the war at all. If it were possible, I would campaign for everything that I believe in: Peace, religious freedom, and acceptance of other races. It's always better to preserve life. On top of that, civil war leaves both sides vulnerable should there be another war with the Thalmor - and they're worse than both sides.


In response to you, GoatLiver, I think it's very interesting listening to the views of the various Dunmer in Winterhold. Ambarys Rendar, is perhaps bothered most by the mistreatment of the Dunmer. I sympathise with him and support his campaign for equality, but I strongly oppose the way he treats the local Nords. He seems to think that the mistreatment of the Dunmer gives him the right to do the same to the Nords. That attitude will only serve to worsen tensions between the two races. Ambarys even goes as far as harassing Suvaris Atheron, a Dark Elf, because she works for a Nord. Instead, he should be modelling the kind of inclusive behaviour that he expects to receive. In time, the Nords would see the benefits of such an attitude, and adopt parts of it themselves. Belyn Hlaalu, on the other hand, believes the best way to combat racism is to be an exemplary Dark Elf citizen, and show the local Nords just how valuable Dark Elves can be. And there's a lot of truth in that. He makes himself an asset to Windhelm by managing a small wheat farm, and holds no contempt for the local Nords - he even employs one to work for him. He also correctly believes that complaining gets you nowhere. Faryl Atheron goes even further than that, he's sick of hearing his brothers' complaints and doesn't even think that some of them are justified (interestingly, he only has one brother). Of course, Faryl looks like he's managed to avoid most of Windhelm's racism. He works outside the city walls, and while his job isn't perfect, the pay is good and he is respected by his Nord boss. Most of the other Dunmer acknowledge the racism, but aren't motivated enough to try to do anything about it.

I really struggle to understand how people don't see Ulfric as racist. It seems so clear to me. Perhaps you see that they're ill-treated, but don't call it racism because it doesn't bother you? Not making any accusation, just a random thought that popped into my head that may happen to be accurate. I already listed the evidence that I see for Ulfric's racism in my above post, but I wasn't entirely happy with it so here's a more complete and better worded list:
1. Many clearly racist Nord citizens support Ulfric, believing that he represents their racist/xenophobic views.
2. The Dunmer were never given equal status in Windhelm. They pay no taxes, are confined to the worst part of Windhelm.
3. Ambarys Rendar says that he "I tried to get Ulfric to even come down here to see the squalor, but the High Lord of His Mightiness couldn't find the time."
4. Brunwulf claims that Ulfric doesn't send aid when non-Nords are raided by bandits.
5. Many Dunmer link the culture of racism to Ulfric personally, saying that it worsened with his uprising, and that they feel more optimistic about living in Windhelm if he's killed.
6. Ulfric's second in command, Galmar Stone-Fist, expresses some xenophobic views, saying, "Skyrim is man's homeland. That's a fact. A fact I'm proud of." I think it's a safe assumption that Ulfric's views are similar.

Anyway, my concern is more about the culture than Ulfric himself. As I said, I expect that Skyrim would be a less pleasant place for non-Nords if Ulfric became high king. So yeah, I think Ulfric probably is racist, but the most important point for me is the effect his rule would have on Skyrim's culture, and I can be almost certain that the situation for non-Nords would worsen.

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree, GoatLiver. I am perhaps more tolerant than most. To my detriment, some would say. Anyway, if we're ever rulers of provinces of Tamriel, feel free to send your Dark Elves, Argonians and Khajiit over to me if you feel they're causing trouble. I'll gladly find a home for them :p.

Given the discussion, I think this imagine is relevant

Not that it doesn't bother me, more along the lines that I think this can happen without it being racism. Someone can (in my eyes at least) just not be worthy of helping, not necessarily for any racial reasons just that their actions in the past have proven unworthy to invest time or effort to them. If that person just so happens to be of a minority that doesn't mean not helping would be a racist action. Anyway about Ulfric being racist what I mean was there really isn't anything direct, everything you said previous was circumstantial. For example;



The point here being its still not Ulfric himself saying or doing something that is directly and irrefutably racist, and I think given the circumstances of everything going on and that in our society at least people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, Ulfric should be cut a little more slack. Not sure if you've seen this book or not but you might find it an interesting read, it would appear the shoe may fit the other foot and in fact Skyrim would be a less pleasant place for Nords if Ulfric doesn't become high king.

Again, you're assuming that all Dark Elves are the same. Some of them are more of an asset to Windhelm than many of the Nords. Do they too deserve to live in the Grey Quarter? Racism is the only explanation.

The phrase "Innocent until proven guilty" relates to a criminal trial, and the fact that guilt must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is open to interpretation, but I interpret it as being something like 95% confidence or higher. At the moment, I would go with about a 70 - 80% chance that Ulfric holds some racist views. Plenty of room for doubt - certainly not enough to convict him in a criminal trial - but I wouldn't vote for him either.


Yeah, I don't agree with a lot of what the Empire does either, but obviously Ulfric becoming high king isn't the only solution, and it's a pretty poor solution if the other races suffer as a result.

But where are all these villages at?

I assume that there are a few more scattered villages throughout Skyrim, when it comes to lore. The only settlements can't just be the hold capitols and a few towns. Just an issue of scaling.

Not all dark elves are or will be same, but Goatliver has a point, there's only one named dunmer who actually doesn't complain about how bad the circumstances are for his people. And he owns a farm and brings an sizable income for his social standing, and so far I've seen a lot dunmer in the Gray Quarter complain more and work less, that doesn't mean they don't work for a living but they're living in Windhelm tax free. Also, if you like dunmer you'd know all dunmer are born with a stubborn kind of pride, as Niranye puts it, once the dunmer swallow their pride improve their lot then Ulfric is more likely to take notice. Rightfully, Skyrim is the human homeland to all but the Redguards and native tribes in High Rock and the dunmer were guests, how would you feel if your unemployed house guest lived with you for two years but never got a job and constantly asked you for things? That's how nords feel, and to an extent that's true.

Moeboid, find us something that directly links Ulfric to racism other than the dunmer living in the Gray Quarter, because he himself doesn't come off as racist and due a glitch in the game itself is missing dialogue with Galmar. The only non human race he's outright hated have been altmer, and that's just the ones that openly the support the thalmor. Otherwise, and we've been over this before, the racism around him has been part of Skyrim's culture for generations, on top of the fact Ulfric is pretty new to being a Jarl and a ruler he has to cater to that part of his support base because that's the people who are primarily supporting him, there's being an idealist and then there's being realistic. And when you're being realistic then you have look at the portion of your society that's actually done anything to elicit your time, so far the dunmer have done nothing to earn the resources needed to fix up the Gray Quarter, and gain the extended patrols of an over extended guard.

There are only a few things that I could point out that you don't already know, and I doubt you'd find meaning in any of them anyway. But like I said in my previous post, I'm not saying that I could prove that Ulfric is racist in a criminal trial, I'm saying that I suspect that he's racist. I think I said something like a 70 - 80% chance. Meaningless numbers, really, because it depends on your standards for racism (By some standards, I could say 100%, others, much lower than 70%). However, you can see that I do acknowledge the possibility of him not being racist, at least by some standards. I question your judgement if you are unable to identify any significant possibility that he is.


I'll be honest, I'm a little surprised by this statement and I'm not quite sure how to respond to it. The "all" part is false beyond any doubt, but I'm a little concerned that it represents a view of the Dunmer as somehow less than other races. Maybe you just misspoke?


Yes, very true, but notice how it's also true the other way around: Once Ulfric swallows his pride and starts treating the Dunmer properly, they're are more likely to lift their game. It's also worth noting that some Dunmer are already exemplary citizens (there's at least two, but that's just from memory; there could be more). They're already doing everything they can, yet they're still not paying taxes and living in the Grey Quarter. I'm confused as to how you find this acceptable.

Another argument I'd make is that we should be able to have higher expectations of the Jarl than of average citizens. Yes, it would be wise for the Dunmer to swallow their pride, but they're just average citizens. I expect some of them to be able to, just like I expect some of them to behave every bit as badly -or worse, even - than the worst Nords. I don't expect much more or less from the average Dunmer than I do from the average Nord. The Jarl, on the other hand, should be much more than just an average citizen. They should be able to swallow their pride, because if they can't, then they won't be able to do their job properly.


If Brunwulf becomes Jarl, he pledges to fix up the Grey Quarter. I'm not saying it would go down well with some of the Nords, but it's clearly possible, because he does it.


Well, I'm not sure, but I think I did that to my parents for a fair bit longer than two years so I should probably return the favour to someone :p

First off, I'm not necessarily saying Ulfric is blatantly racist. However, I do not understand why having a slum of any kind in your city is an acceptable thing. The Dunmer in Windhelm do not pay taxes, but if they did, could they afford it? Hard to say, but their living conditions certainly don't say so. There are indeed successful Dunmer in Windhelm, and if that's the case--keeping in mind they pay no taxes--why are they not living in better houses? It just all seems a little fishy that the Dunmer are only allowed to "earn" their equal treatment. Should African Americans have to earn their equality during segregation? Well, segregation is no longer around so I would say most agree that they should have an equal a chance as any.

Furthermore, relating back to the topic, why should any citizen, regardless of situation, be forced to assist in a war they don't believe in? My government graciously pays for roads and schools and other public services, but does that mean I have to support their "War on Terror"? If I don't believe in it, no I don't have to.

Anyways, just my two cents. Sure the Dunmer have been helped by much of Skyrim, but they still have their own beliefs and situations to think about, just like any Nord, Imperial, etc.

-You can call him whatever you want but outside the contentious issue with the Gray Quarter any signs of racism are exhibited by those who work under him, because the anti elf sentiment has been part Skyrim's culture for generations after the scrape with the Snow Elves and the following wars with the Dwemer. Also Ulfric doesn't say anything to the characters that alludes to any racism at all besides hating thalmor, have you perhaps noticed that Windhelm's stable owners are Altmer who you never see complain about being harassed, and Niranye, lives in a decent part of the city and works a merchant whom everyone trades with pretty openly. When useful to society nords don't mind elves, but when they don't do anything at all and ask for more then you perhaps notice they lose attention, that goes even for other nords, because the individual role nord society is to work overall for the benefit of your people.

-You haven't played Morrowind have you? Give me a dunmer that doesn't a have a large sense of pride. And yes I know there are exceptions, but Niranye normally isn't wrong, the dunmer in the Gray Quarter have that dunmer pride.

-Then again, you could look at the fact that the dunmer haven't done anything to warrant Ulfric giving out his limited resources. I never denied that there are hardworking dunmer, dunmer who do have jobs and provide for their families but have they done anything for Ulfric give out resources? They live tax free in Windhelm and yet they complain about recovering from an event two hundred years ago, plus they don't show the slightest sign of interest in Windhelm, it's maintenance, or its problems. If you want to an equal in a nord city like Windhelm then you've got to pull your weight and actually care about the city you live, the one that let you stay in it tax free.

-No, Brunwulf doesn't do [&@%!] about anything, we don't see any planning between dunmer and city agents, no signs of construction or renovation, and no transport of building materials to the Gray Quarter after he becomes Jarl.


Well, I'm not sure, but I think I did that to my parents for a fair bit longer than two years so I should probably return the favour to someone :p[/quote]
Exactly, now put this situation in Ulfric's hands, he's taken up his father's throne and has to deal with the dunmer who have been living in the Gray Quarter for free, for close to two hundred years. The Red Year is over and they'd had a lot of time to get on their feet but they still languish in poverty. Tell me, as Ulfric would you give precious few resources to the segment of the population who actually contributed to the well being of the city or on a group of refugees who aren't refugees anymore?

You know Dunmer in Morrowind being racist doesn't make Nords in Skyrim being racist okay. Racism is bad. Dunmer being racist is bad, Nords being racist is bad too. It is why I liked Hlaalu in Morrowind, they were moving past it rather than promoting more of it.

I don't think their would be a slum in any city if the resources to fix it where available, there is a slum of types in Riften (the Ratway) and a slum in Markarth (the Warrens), Windhelm doesn't have the resources currently to fix this even the rich areas are crumbling. Someone has to occupy the slum and given the choice between tax paying Nords (and other races eg quite a few High Elves) or tax-free refugees what would be the logical outcome of who would live there? If they did (pay taxes), could they afford it? ...well yes tax is proportional to your income.



If Ulfric where to swallow his pride he may as well just accept the Talos ban and be done with it. He doesn't though, he holds himself to higher standards and fights for his cause even though the path before him is harder and possibly less rewarding than taking the easy way out like so many of the other Jarls. He doesn't accept the concordat and then behind closed doors secretly worship Talos when people in his hold are being abducted and tortured by the Thalmor, enter Balgruuf the so called Greater. Again why is it only Ulfric that the refugee situation apparently reflects poorly on as the refugees are are exempt from tax in every hold in Skyrim? They can live where they choose yet Riften another Stormcloak city is the only other to have a large Dunmer population. No other citys or Jarls offer aid to help relieve the situation, no other citys or Jarls go out of their way to better the lives of the refugees, yet Ulfric must do this or he is racist but none of the others are. For all the riches in Solitude would it kill them to invite some of the Dunmer to live there? What about Whiterun, they are the biggest and central hold of Skyrim, do they help? As the saying goes, when the Empire points the finger at Ulfric there are 3 more pointing back at them.

Anyway this whole war is the Empires fault, how come the argonians can succeed peacefully from the empire then attack a province of the empire and still not encounter resistance. Yet when Skyrim wants to succeed they won't accept Ulfric's rule or honour Nordic tradition even when all involved understand Ulfric to make a legitimate challenge and just send in the legions. Even the High-King himself accepts this challenge at the cost of his own life, why does the Emperor not accept this? Because he is afraid of loosing power the reason he signed the same concordat he refused to sign after so many of his subjects died defending his decision not to sign it, the same reason he abandoned Hammerfell. The Empire cares only for power and greed and nothing for honour and tradition least of all the people that make up that Empire.

No one claimed that. It is still worthwhile to note that the Dunmer are hypocrites in this regard -- they couldn't accept outsiders but expect to be accepted. Something's wrong with that picture. And Hlaalu was only concerned with business. They put aside differences for the sake of profit, not because they were tolerant.

Also: well said, Goatliver.

Tax is proportional to your income in modern-day America (as well as some other countries I'm sure) but in a medieval fantasy setting, it might be different; think of Robin Hood and the whole "tax the poor" issue there.


Refugees happen to be in the cities furthest east, because those are closest to Morrowind. No other Jarls deal with Dunmer refugees simply because they don't reside in their cities; why should they go out of their way to retrieve Dunmer refugee families already established in other cities (and aren't really refugees anymore, as you said) when they already have many problems of their own in their cities? And for many people in a world like this, distance is much greater and moving long distances is very difficult. We are arguing that Ulfric should deal with the problems in his city(just like any Jarl), and one of them just happens to involve the Gray Quarter.

It isn't that we're picking on Ulfric: he isn't the only Jarl we would accuse of racism if he didn't help a certain group of people in his city. He just happens to be the specific Jarl we're discussing because he is the leader of the Stormcloaks.

As for the Empire...I have to agree that this Empire is much weaker and poorly led than when the Septims lead the Empire, though for me, choosing them would be out of necessity against the greater threat (Thalmor) rather than actually liking them better.

we are judging these fictional races by our 21st century human values. We have to get on with our neighbours cos there are so many of us in the world, it's not practical harbouring grudges because of someones race or beliefs - we have moved on in a real sense from the fight for survival - we are starting to see humans as a race rather than a tribe that has to kill the next one in order to continue

in Tamreil, the races are constantly jostling for survival - we have just seen the dominion of elves supplant the empire - so imo racism isnt really a fair accusation for anyone in these TES stories. TES characters are not hyporcrites as racism isnt a value that exists in tamreil like it does in the "developed world" - so if in TES you show hostility your enemies who happen to be nords, and 200 years later they show hostility to you, their enemies, it is a far more natural thing than hating someone cos they look different.

in Tamreil your race determines to a greater extent who's army you are fighting for, and which side will be slaughtering your children if they get a chance. Racism is a very civilised term, TES is not a civilised world, and this a a big part of any role playing we might do in these games imo

in other words modern man doesnt rely on war for survival any more so there is no justification for hatred of other races (I know this isnt strictly true but I am contextualising my notion of racism), but in TES it is far more understandable that one race might hate another doe to recent and ongoing atrocities

tl:dr
hating someone cos they are an enemy is different to hating them merely cos of their skin colour

What I dislike about this is most of my characters aren't Nords or Imperials, yet if it wasn't for the one dragon that you must kill, you wouldn't have a game to play. "Forget the list (s)he goes to the block"- great first impression, I think I want to join your side later! Instead of the empire reading the damn list or investigating the situation they assume killing the anomalous prisoner is the correct decision.

Stormcloaks, they didn't want me killed 5 minutes into the game, yet they're all 'Nords for Skyrim'. I can't exactly LEAVE Skyrim unless I wish to stay on Solstheim, so I'm stuck between the people that wanted my head in a basket and the 'rebels' that are frightened of their land being overrun by Imperials to the point where even Dunmer like myself are being regarded as 'Imperial Spies'.

Overall the Stormcloak Nords are really only fighting for their independence and fear the Imperials from overrunning their land completely. Then there is the Thalmor behind them to knock their already-insecure minds about travelers/visitors. Ulfric "tolerates" Argonians and Dunmer, whom aren't exactly their greatest buddies in the past, but I'd rather side with them and be buddies with Ulfric, who I was with since the start of my game than fall as low as taking over a race's land after escaping beheading with my 'legion team'.

Not all Dunmer are racist. Not all Nords are racist. Sure, some Dunmer complaining about being treated as second class citizens may have done the same to other races in the past. But not all of them. Mer treating Man badly results in resentment and Man treating Mer badly results in resentment. It leads into a vicious cycle.

In saying racism is wrong I'm not saying it is wrong by our modern standards but was accepted back in the day, so it was alright then. It was wrong then too, it was just accepted. Racism is wrong in Tamriel even if it is widely accepted.

That's more so due to some important factors;

The Tension between the Mer and Men of Mereth/Skyrim, ever since the Destruction of Saarthal.

The political tension between Skyrim and Morrowind.

And House Hlaalu's reputation far precedes Redoran's reputation.

Stormcloaks. GoatLiver has already posted plenty of reasons why.

When I first started playing Skyrim, I was pro-Imperial. As I learned more by reading about the history between the Oblivion Crisis and the events of the current game, I realized that my pro-Imperial views were based on reasons that no longer seemed important:

1. Nostalgia for the Septim Empire
- The current "empire" - I use that term loosely - has nothing in common with the Septim Empire.

2. Only a united Empire can stand against the A.D.
- Hammerfell disproved that notion.
- It seems highly doubtful that the current empire intends to resume the fight against the A.D. It ignored one opportunity (Hammerfell) and is suppressing another (the Stormcloak rebellion).

3. The alleged racism of Ulfric and other Stormcloaks. Even if the allegation is true:
- The current Emperor is in league with something far worse than a group of provincial racists.
- Stormcloaks' views toward other races wouldn't be abnormal by Tamriel's standards.
- Thus, I don't see it as a significant issue, even if it is true.

Those are the factors that changed my mind.