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In game and personally<_< I don't like either sides.. should be a vote for that..
.
But still, I do like the stormcloaks for their reasoning, but I dislike the nordic attitude and I can't stand for Ulfric.. maybe say if there was someone more fitting for throne, I'll go along with it
As with the Empire, I whole heartily wish for it to stay strong, not to fight amongst itself and fall prey to the thalmor. I do believe a new empire should arise, one that can protect the values that are so close to being lost..

Still, tis my opinion

Stormcloaks.
The optimist in me likes to believe there is no reason an independent Skyrim ( and an independent hammerfell for that matter ) would not ally with the Empire against the Thalmor. An alliance of free nations can match the power of a single empire, and I think most Nords would still see their Imperial neighbors as brothers if they were given equal footing, so to speak.
But I'm a hopeless romantic

Everything Mickey said. I'd love it if Tamriel could be a huge land of multiple nations instead of a bunch of lands under imperial rule. I think that's far more interesting as far as stories go.

Skyrim does belong to the Nords, but that doesn't mean that only Nords should have the right to live there.

Amen to that. I don't really want to support either, but the Stormcloaks, even though their intentions are noble, are propagating discrimination when they themselves are fighting discrimination and I don't think Skyrim needed that kind of politics.
I mean, just look at Windhelm itself for the best example. There's a large population of Dunmer there that have every reason to be there just like any Nord, but they're treated like third class citizens and some of the townsfolk actually believe that they're spies for the Thalmor just because they're a Mer.
At least with the Empire, there'd be some semblance of unity with the other nations of Tamriel that are associated with it and the combined forces could at least attempt to fight the Thalmor back. A separated Skyrim would fall into further decay and the Thalmor wouldn't even pretend to be gentle when they come to enforce the White-Gold Cordat.

Well put, Stormcloaks are essentially shooting themselves in the foot with their hang ups. Nords alone aren't going to be enough to stop the thalmor threat.

Every nation has the right to self-governance, but if the party that would rule it would bring more harm than good, then it's best if another party would rule it. I like to think that Skyrim could eventually have more autonomy, perhaps even independence from the Empire (with some mutual defense pacts and trading agreements) some day, but today is not that day.

I don't know about anybody else, but my heart absolutely swelled after the Imperial campaign, when Brunwulf Free-Winter took over as Jarl of WIndhelm. Dude's a saint. And he's smart. He'd like to start integrating the Argonians and Dunmer into the city, but he realizes that the hate is still so very ingrained into the Nords of the city, so he's taking things slowly and steadily. Good man.

Oh I definitely agree that Skyrim should be able to be a nation on its own, but banding together with the rest of the Empire and /then/ splitting off after the Thalmor have been beaten off would have been a much smarter choice. Like I said in my last post, the intention is noble but the way it's being done is dubious at best, and with someone like Ulfric Stormcloak leading it, it reads like a powerplay. Oh yes, let's free Skyrim from the Empire, but only if I get to be King.

Totally the Empire they aren't crazy berserkers like the Nords.

Wow, prejudice much?

You know, a large part of the Imperial forces is Nordic.

Let's keep discussion to your own viewpoints and stay away from incendiary comments like this.

Well, to prove a point, Nords aren't "berserkers." They also aren't the topic of this thread. The Stormcloaks are. And even they aren't "berserkers." They are normal people who fight for what they believe is right. There is no evidence to the contrary. Thus I found the comment offensive. Especially since it singles out an entie race.

The Empire is just a shell of it's former self. It seems that the Mede rule fails to stand up to the Septim rule and as of 201 of the 4th Era, Cyrodiil only has High Rock. Skyrim is at risk of breaking away and Hammerfell flat out refuses to talk to Cyrodiil due to the WGC. They proved that the Thalmor can be defeated and they did it by themselves. The Legion may have been able to defeat the Thalmor, they may not have but Titus did what he believed to be the right thing knowing full well that the nords would be up in arms about it. The Imperial Legion is a shell of it's former self as well. It seems that they have downgraded a lot of their stuff during the past 200 years. I think in lore, a Legionaire was not to be trifled with and commanded a lot of respect. Now, they are easily defeated by a Nord in light armour and that is just one on one.

The Stormcloaks have the right idea but Ulfric is a racist and seems to just want to be king. He is consumed by his hatred for the Thalmor and seems to want to destroy them at any cost. Before his rebellion, the Empire turned it's back on the no Talos Worship ban and let Skyrim get away with it. After his rebellion, they were forced to stamp it out or risk all out war with the Thalmor. Ulfric fails to realise that Skyrim alone can't defeat the Thalmor. If he was friendly to all races and tried his best to solve the tensions in his city as well as ruling evenly, I would support his cause as the Empire is just a thrall of the Dominion and is a disgrace.

Hardly, Ulfric needs more experience as a ruler, and I highly contest that Ulfric is racist. He never actually says anything racist and the only thing that links him to any kind of racism is the dunmer residing in the former snow quarter and the Argonians at the docks. But even that was going before Ulfric took the throne. There's literally nothing that can directly link Ulfric's personal views to any racist agenda in the first place, no one likes thalmor and the racism exhibited by the Stormcloaks is always coming from commanders, common soldiers, backers, and supporting Jarls. Ulfric himself has never shown himself to be racist.

True but he seems to ignore bandit attacks on non-nords and is teh first to rally his men if nords are attacked by bandits in his hold.

or so Brunwulf-Free-Winter tells you, the man the Imperials would place as the next Jarl were they to defeat Ulfric....

honestly, i never saw Ulfric as racist. a lot of his followers, yes. but him personally, no. I'm a strong supporter of the Empire in Skyrim, but a lot of it is because i just liked the Imperials characters more than the Stormcloaks. i think Skyrim needs the empire, and I don't like this whole ''Skyrim for the Nords'' business that a lot of Stormcloaks are preaching.

another thing is: i dislike Talos as a god.

Why don't you try ruling a province at war. Ulfric is low on manpower, resources, and is fighting a war he knows he can't win in a straight up conflict, bandit attacks are the least of his problems, Hjalmarch isn't much better either. Forsworn, vampires, and bandits are roam freely, comparatively Eastmarch is much safer.

Except he only sents out men to deal with them if they attack nords instead of dealing with them regardless of who they attack in his hold. Free-Winter seems to care about the Dunmer in Windhelm. If Ulfric treated the Dunmer well, he would find he would have a lot more men as they would be more inclined to help him as opposed to refusing to aid his cause. I wouldn't be surprised if some Dunmer were spies for the Legion in Windhielm.

That is alleged, but then again, how much can Ulfric actually do? We hear that non nords are left to bandits by Free-Winter who by all means isn't a fan of Ulfric. Why would he tell you, a stranger to Windhelm, good things about a man he probably disdains.

That is not the reason the Dunmer stay out, TLD. The Dunmer admit that they don't fight because they don't care. Morrowind will still be Morrowind by the end of the day.

Thats just it. We dont really know, and he is our only source of information on that. He is the only one to mention it. And he stands to gain if Ulfric loses. I think you need more than the word of one man, before you condemn another.

I think we can all agree that Hjaalmarch is a big mess.
Even if Ulfric himself isn't racist or as racist as his followers, he does nothing to stop the racism going on in Windhelm which says a lot. Even if he only responds to the bandit attacks on Nords because of time constraints, being involved in other things, or if he maybe doesn't even find handling the racism in Windhelm important, it only supports what we're saying.
RE Skyrim is for the Nords: No, Skyrim was for the snow elves and Dwemer. Both of which are completely gone as productive races, one of which has only one kind of visual representation at all.

Racism is not illegal, last I checked, so what could Ulfric legally do?

True but he doesn't seem to care that some of his citizens are breaking the law in their racist activities towards the Dunmer. But I think most of Windhelm just doesn't care about the Gray Quarter.


As for Skyrim belonging to the nords. It does but it should also let anyone live there as long as they obey their laws. Just like the rest of Tamriel. I think the Snow Elves may have started the war between them and the Nords and greatly underestimated them but I can't recall if that is the case or not.