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Ummmm.... Unless you weren't playing attention, yes, they did go around attacking things. That's why the blades hunted them, they were only forced into hiding when their numbers dwindled from retaliation attacks from the locals who were organized by the Dragonguard. Mirmulnir was a well known menace too, his attacks were recorded and I don't think attacking a tower full of people in celebration of the World-Eater isn't exactly a good thing. I've never run into helpful dragons outside the two named ones that cooperate with during the main quest, it's always the irritating blood dragon that kills half of Riverwood until I get there after fighting hordes of wolves that pop up every two steps. Every dragon I've encountered has tried to kill me for just being in it's sight or happening to walk by it's particular word wall.

Why? Because one woman in the Legion was trying to impress Tullius and didn't want to look disorganized?

...change of heart, or just don't have your facts straight?



You didn't say directly its dishonourable and unfair, but certainly what you are implying. You have also changed the facts to suit you again, the Dovahkiin according to the grey beards and the way of the voice is not supposed to go around shouting either. Delphine (like her or not) says "If they had their way, you'd do nothing but sit up on their mountain with them and talk to the sky, or whatever it is they do. The Greybeards are so afraid of power that they won't use it. Think about it. Have they tried to stop the civil war, or done anything about Alduin? No. And they're afraid of you, of your power. Trust me, there's no need to be afraid. Think of Tiber Septim. Do you think he'd have founded the Empire if he'd listened to the Greybeards?", two examples of Dragonborn not supposed to use the voice. Before you complain about that not being enough evidence its 1 persons dialogue, right or wrong its the same as what you are basing most of your views on.



This is pure speculation. There are no sources and nowhere near enough information to suggest any of this is true. How many troops do the Thalmor have? and how many the Empire? How much money does each side have? How strong is the support for the Thalmor in their territories (Valenwood and Elsweyr)? How badly where the Thalmor hurt in the last war, it is said they did better than they were expecting? There just is no information available on this so you couldn't possibly know. You have no definitive proof that;
a.) The Empire (if fully reunited) could actually beat the Thalmor.
b.) The Empire without Sykrim would not be able to defeat the Thalmor.
c.) A unified Skyrim under Stromcloak control would not be able to beat the Thalmor.
To say any of those things are true or use them as points against joining the Stormcloaks is just misinformed prevarication.



This is so far from being an acceptable truth its ridiculous. If you are going to state that as an assertion of fact then I am going to say many farmers are walking around saying "Im on my way to Windhelm to join up with the Stormcloaks, Ulfric has the right of it." Therefore Ulfric is in the right, case closed.

Anyway, Skyrim does not stand a chance against the Thalmor should they decide to invade it if the Stormcloaks are the canon winners. Ulfric would have to spread his forces thin to patrol the province and well, Skyrim is not excatly the best place to be patroling. But the Empire is no better either. The Legion is beyond it's prime and i suspect, keeps having it's funding cut due to less income for the empire. If the Stormcloaks win, they only have High Rock and the Empire can't afford to up the taxes to increase funds for the Legion as it could spurn a rebellion and the last thing the Empire needs is another Civil War. I think, if it was the Septim era Legion, Ulfric's men would not stand a chance due to Legionaires being very deadly in battle.

The Empire is not the same.

This is not the Septim Empire. This is the Mede Empire.

Nords have always supported the Septim Empire - the empire which never surrendered.

The Mede Empire has bowed and scraped before the elves, much to the disgust of Hammerfell, who, by the way, had enough strength to kick out the elves from their province.

Skyrim should give them the same treatment. An angry nord wielding a battleaxe is just as fearsome as an angry redguard wielding a sharp scimitar. The Nords even have an historic Elf-killing Hero to look up to.

Down with the Empire, Down with the Thalmor, Here's to an alliance with Hammerfell!

Goatliver - I'm not responding here because if I do I'll get seriously told off. ^ You'll have a PM at some point if you want me to answer.

Same for you Derp.

I just want to mention that we don't really know the details of how Hammerfell drove off the Thalmor. I'm sure it's safe to assume it cost them quite a lot--lots of lives and lots of resources. Do we even know what kind of state Hammerfell is in?

I'm not saying Skyrim couldn't do the same, but it's debatable if it's in their best interest. Could they fair better with the Empire on their side? Possibly, but in that scenario they're at the mercy of the Empire's choices when it comes to fighting the Aldmeri Dominion. There's no real "good" option, there are only slightly less bad options, really.

As much of an arse Tullius is, the Stormcloaks always smacked a bit of the BNP to me.... (British Nationalist Party), less about freedom and suffrage of their people, and more about ignorance and racism.

What has everyone got against Tullius, anyways? he is one of the main reasons that convinced me to join the Empire.

They want their people to be free and rule their land, not take over everyone (that is what Empires do.)

Other than the fact he doesn't respect Nordic tradition at all?

You mean because of those few annoyed statements he makes when Nordic Tradition/Culture gets in the way of his plans? like ''you nords and your damn sense of honour''

he respects it perfectly fine, he even tells you this when you ask him about what he is going to do next after the war is over. he says that ''Skyrims harshness withers a man down to his true self'' and that he has come to respect the Nords.

I supported the Empire.
Although, yes they dropped the ball with the White-Gold Concordat,
And yes, they are pritty much on the downhill with Thalmor agents prowling around everywhere,

The Stormcloak idea is, on the exterior, a good one, and the arguments made by many Stormcloak supporters definitely have merit (such as an independent Skyrim forging an alliance with Hammerfell, and then maybe convincing an isolated High Rock to also secede)

However an independent Skyrim would be ineffective.
-Ulfric Stormcloak. Can you imagine him running Skyrim? Look at his city and then imagine Skyrim under his rule.

-The Stormcloak Military. They are a ragged bunch, composed entirely of light-and-fast soldiers equipped little better than city guards. Their barbarian-esque style of combat might suit the ragged landscape and lightly-defended cities of Skyrim, but can you imagine these troops against heavy Altmer infantry supported by Battlemages and Bosmer marksman? At least the legions stand a chance against the Dominion.

-Stormcloak supporters. They are a Zealous bunch. They fullstop hate. the other races - even Ulfric knows that cooperation between all will be key in stopping the Thalmor - however many of the Nord's "Skyrim for the Nords" attitude would hinder opportunities for future alliances with other provinces. Also, Stormcloak rule would even further strain relations with factions such as the College of Winterhold and Orcish Strongholds.

My opinion is that Man should definitely not be fighting amongst themselves. I believe that an independent Skyrim would benefit only the Thalmor - 'Divide and conquer', remember? I believe that a new Empire should be formed:
An Empire of Man.
-The Dunmer are in no position to help anyone but themselves
-Black Marsh seems content to stay out of everyone else's business after their revenge on Morrowind
-Elswyr and Valenwood are firmly under the Dominion's sway.

Thus it falls to the northern provinces to BAND TOGETHER oppose the Dominion. Hammerfell, Cyrodiil, Skyrim, High Rock.
What is needed is a reconciliation with Hammerfell, an abandonment of Morrowind and then begins the preparation for the second great war.

I agree with redguard

The Empire, for these simple reasons:

1) Granted in Ulfric's dossier they stated they don't want a Stormcloak victory (for the obvious allowance of Nords worshiping Talos) but the most telling statement was them saying an Imperial Victory would hurt their overall position in Skyrim. Think about that for a minute.

2) In the same dossier, they said Ulfric's value as an asset increased after he rebelled against the Empire *cough* useful idiot *cough* because the civil war gives them [the Thalmor] a strategic advantage and that indirect aid to Stormcloaks must be carefully watched, something else to think about.

People can blurt out Hammerfell all they want but keep in mind they fought the Thalmor after the Thalmor lost many soldiers in the Great War.

I read the beheading talking point a lot but do remember the Stormcloaks didn't bother to speak up in your favor either. Personally, I believe the introduction was terribly written for this reason: your confused for a Stormcloak if you aren't a Nord. That just doesn't make sense.

Yeah, tell that to Nordic tradition, when someone challenges a king to combat and wins, they are rightful High King. Not only that, but he still refuses to believe that he challenged him to combat, like most Empire supporters.


Exactly. While I think that everyone will have to fight together to beat them. Maybe the Dominion will make an attempt at Black Marsh. I completely agree with that statement.

I agree, but they had unity until the WGC. Imagining myself in the situation presented in the game, if I believed that Titus II intended to resume the fight, I would side with the Empire on the "united we're strong" argument. But his actions after the WGC regarding Hammerfell and the rebellion in Skyrim would lead me to believe that he does not intend to oppose the AD any further. So, I would have to side with the Stormcloaks.

As I posted before, maybe the next game will reveal the truth.

As a side-note, I have two Skyrim characters. Both are officially neutral, but one (Breton) leans Imperial and the other (Redguard) leans Stormcloak.



Both sides were weakened by the Great War. I view the losses as pretty much a wash, with weakened Redguard forces driving out weakened AD/Thalmor forces.

Remember, General Tullius, whom if my memory serves is the Emperor's BEST general, believes that war is coming. -He expresses it quite clearly at the end of the Civil War questline. (Legion side)

You can't wait until the end of the questline to choose a side, though.

he says he has some thoughts about the Dominion he'd like to share with the dovahkiin some time (or words to that effect) which in the context of when it was said i think referred to a plan to oust the Altmer in dlc

i agree that Ulfric will sit on the throne and happily let the Altmer rule the world if they leave the nords alone, he doesnt seem to have Septimesq ideas of grandeur

Tullius however, seems to think of the bigger picture even though he is an imperial lackey in many ways

I support the Empire. My reasons for this are the same as OP's. And though Ulfric makes a good case about Talos and all, but that's just his excuse to get the High King's Throne. Another reason for not siding with the Stormcloaks is that I can't stand racial prejudice and discrimination.

I do not support either faction. I have a mild respect for the thalmor "organization" (but not for it's actual people whom I'd kill for being rude, regardless if they were thalmor)
I sort of approve of thalmor strength beating the empire into obeying the white gold concordat. I guess that makes my characters sort of traitors. However I rarely play as nord/imperial/etc (prefers Khajiit and Elves)

I say the concordat is a legal document and obedience is mandatory. If Tullius cannot even control the stormcloaks (without player intervention) then maybe the thalmor should take windhelm and destroy the talos temple..


This saying I have nothing against talos. (however the eminently brave bearded man with the giant claymore crushing that poor serpent underfoot seems to indicate the idea that warrior/combat > stealth. As snakes are represented as stealth as seen in the sneak perk tree. Nords have many good traits, strong, good with crafts and smithing. But nords can also be stubborn and be posessed of lackluster intelligence and lack of curiosity in magic.

Back to topic. I don't care who wins, Empire or Stormcloaks. I'd just want the war to be over soon, without player intervention. :p


I seem to be a closet thalmor fanboy.

After making my new Skyrim character and playing around with the Imperial legion side I think I'm actually supportive for the Empire now O_O.

Seriously, one quote from a typical Imperial soldier made me fall for his team; "What the rebels like to forget is that the Empire is what's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim". This actually has an impact if it's actually true... The Empire could possibly just want to unite Skyrim to strike down the Thalmor in their own land (Summerset Isles) or something.

Well for now I can just hope the Imperials have a plan or thought of stabbing the Thalmor in the back. (And I think Tullius brought up the treaty with the Thalmor under his breath when he gives the Battle for Windhelm speech, something like "I don't trust it").