The debate; Empire, or Stormcloaks?

[Baloth-Kul ●]

I'm curious, and I'd like to see what the general consensus (if there is one) is on the forum, here.

Which do you support and why? Which do you believe would be the brightest future for Skyrim, and Cyrodiil as a whole? The Stormcloaks, hard-hearted, brave and devoted sons and daughters of Skyrim? Or The Empire, the unifier and defender of Cyrodiil?

Let's keep this clean! Respect everyone's opinions, etc. etc.

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I, myself, think that the Empire is the best bet for Skyrim, and for Cyrodiil, and I think that because;

Hidden:

-The Empire has existed for hundreds of years, and has done a relatively good job of defending its people
-All races are (generally) accepted...or more to the point, most Imperial citizens don't have the Stormcloaks' racist views
-The Empire has enough military might to challenge, or at least put up a good fight, against the Aldmeri Dominion; the Stormcloaks, ONE PROVINCE, does not
-Ulfric Stormcloak has cooperated with the Thalmor. If he did so before, why would he not do so again, especially when hard pressed in a war against them, or anybody else? Proof of such is in a Thalmor document, here; http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

In defense of the Empire, here...Many people (NPCs in Skyrim, mostly, really) scorn the Empire for agreeing to ban Talos worship. But it was for the greater good. The Thalmor had defeated the Empire. Their dagger at the Empire's throat, they DEMANDED that worship be banned. If it had not been, the whole continent would have been razed, and the few who survive would be crushed under Thalmor rule. Sacrifice worship of a god to live to fight another day, or let your pride destroy your country, and everyone in it? To me, the choice is clear. I believe that after another war with the Thalmor, a UNITED Empire would win, and would reinstate Talos worship.
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Anyway, enough about my views on all this. What do you think, UESP?

[Unionhack ●]

I'm a sucker for rebellions and being the hero of the oppressed. So Stormcloak for me.

Tullius is a disrespectful ass anyway.

[Street_Assassin ●]

Since my first elder scroll game is Skyrim, I vote for stormcloaks. I started out with a nord like most of ppl new to this game and really felt strong presence of everyone telling me how empire is bad and controlled like puppets by thalmor. Its hard to change opinion of empire if even the main quest makes thalmors look bad. Plus once I first started playing I didn't like magic at all and didn't understand it too much and stormcloaks think magic is for weak and that made me like them even more lol. Plus who doesn't want to be a hero in the game and fight with the rebels and win over big empire armada? Even if u join dark brotherhood and

Spoiler:

complete a quest where u kill a bride in solitude,the city of the empire in skyrim

it feels weird to be sided with empire and do that in their city. It only feels natural for many Skyrim ppl ,most of those being Nords, feel like ulfric should be the king. Neither empire or stormcloaks are saint or evil. There's always bad things in either one thay balance the good things. Just my opinions

[Zombie_Head ●]

I support Ulfric's cause 100%, but Ulfric himself, no. I do not want him to be the next High King, he does not care about his own people to be honest. He is just power hungry and barbaric.

The Empire is good for Skyrim, but not all their decisions i support.

If it was up to me, i would take Ulfric's cause, add it to the Empire and go straight up against the Thalmor.

[Msirae Faythung ●]

The Empire. I saved it in the Oblivion Crisis and tried to help it in Morrowind where I could. The Empire still seems to be the best shot for Tamriel against the Thalmor. Skyrim alone could not take down the Thalmor. Add to this the fact that many Stormcloaks are racist (including Ulfric Stormcloak himself - note the Grey Quarter in Windhelm) and these are my main reasons for supporting the Empire.

[Musicman247 ●]

We've tried this thread several times. Each time the discussion gets heated. I'm going to leave this for now, but know it is being watched carefully. Remember the forum rules - no personal attacks. Don't forget that you're discussing a video game.

[Pancake ●]

I've been an empire crony for two games, so my vote will always go for the Empire. But if Skyrim is my first game i'd probably side over Stormcloak since it would be quite difficult to ally myself with a group who wanted to beheaded me as soon as new game started.

For the empire, really.

[AbiwonKenabi ●]

I'm actually surprised how many people voted Empire so far.

I prefer the people and brotherhood feel of the Stormcloaks, but I think they've got it all wrong. The Empire is just as upset with the Thalmor and the Talos ban as the Stormcloaks are, and given the chance, they would rectify it. The Empire was just defeated by the Thalmor in a huge war, but eventually, with a UNITED Empire, I think they can abolish Thalmor influence and thus end a lot of the rebels' woes. (Just a random prediction: I think TES VI will be based on this conflict)

The Stormcloaks have a sympathetic cause, but the Thalmor will eventually set their sights on Skyrim, and then where will they be? A single province can't stand against the Thalmor. The Empire could barely even do it.

[Kerr ●]

Empire.

I don't like the racism for one thing. Skyrim doesn't belong to the Nords. Plenty of races live there. That doesn't mean I think the Empire is perfect. Both sides have their ups and downs.

What it really comes down to for me is the Thalmor threat. By being divided they become weakened against the Thalmor. Skyrim would be screwed by itself and the Empire would be weaker without Skyrim. They need to work together and deal with the Thalmor. That'll end the ban on Talos worship and other stuff the Stormcloaks dislike, things the Imperials hate too. If after all that the people of Skyrim want greater autonomy or even full independence then they can have it.

[dzio ●]

I'm Polish. We have a long history of stubborn and often misguided rebellions against powerful Empires, my genes want me to join the underdog every time.

That said, the "Skyrim for Nords" part is not something I support, so my previous characters mostly stayed neutral.

[Witchery ●]

I'm a Stormcloak fan, myself. The Empire's past its prime.

[Archer ●]

I, too, side with the Stormcloaks. I feel that, at this point, the empire is far too weak to ever be able to stand up to the Domion. They can't hold on to their own provinces, see Morrowind, Hammerfell, Black Marsh, and hopefully Skyrim. Add the fact that Cyrodiil itself is, apparently, extremely chaotic and dangerous, and it shows that they don't have the ability to maintain control.
While I do not like racism that runs rampant through the ranks, I think it is preceded to the type that the Dominion will give out when they take control via the empire.

[Unionhack ●]

We're doing an excellent job of not having the discussion get heated so gar. :D

I'm not a fan of the racism in the Stormcloaks, I imagine that playing a non-Nord Stormcloak would probably at least earn your race, if not other races, some major props from the other Stormcloaks if you help win the war.

[Emzi 43 ●]

Empire, sure they're not very stable now, but if hammerfell and skyrim can back them and unite, they will regain their lost land and their lost age

[Archer ●]

The only problem with that, is Hammerfell will never willingly rejoin the Empire, and even if the Empire forced them, it would just be a matter of time before they broke off again.

[Sublymonal ●]

I'm torn. I hate the whole 'oh, he just happened to walk through the place we put an ambush, might as well kill him' thing, but on the other hand Ulfric is a MASSIVE pile of excrement who I want to toss off the throat of the world. I slide just a bit to the empire.

[Avron the S'wit ●]

In game, my characters tend to be neutral, because, I mean, it's really a tough time. As a fan of the series I side with the Empire, because it's what I know and love, and I can understand them accepting Thalmor terms in an effort to try to keep what little they have together - that's a tough game, and at the end of the day, Stormcloak or Empire, no one really likes the Thalmor, which speaks for itself. But as for the in character view, I remember having a gun-ho Imperial who showed up in Solitude to join the Legion, and Tullius pretty much dismisses him even though they've clearly already met. At least Ulfric identifies you and doesn't amount you to as much as a speck of dirt under his boot. Still, his views can be a little tough to wrap your head around, and for his own city to have so much turmoil...no thanks.

(This topic is actually funny because two days ago my boyfriend casually asked me who my character supports, and I claimed I was thinking of joining the Empire - and he got so upset, asking how I could join someone who oppresses the freedom of religion and so on. I'm glad to say this thread isn't as heated as our discussion was. Awesome job!)

[Baloth-Kul ●]

I agree with several points that've been made, even ones supporting the Stormcloaks. The Empire is past its prime, definitely, but I think it could rise up again. And with Titus Mede assassinated, maybe somebody...BETTER...would take the throne. The Empire isn't perfect, but the Stormcloaks definitely aren't either.

...I had really convinced myself that we'd see a DLC for Skyrim where, whether Stormcloaks or Imperials, you would defend Skyrim against a Thalmor incursion. Ah well. Maybe in another game, we'll see a new Thalmor war. Though I expect that if Bethesda didn't say something like the Stormcloaks and Empire came to a "stalemate", many fans would be upset if it was made canon that either the Stormcloaks or Empire outright won in Skyrim. But ah well. We'll see!

...I must confess, I absolutely love Stormcloak officer armor. So cool. And the ranks...Unblooded, Ice-Veins, Bone-Breaker, Snow-Hammer, Stormblade? Phew. I like it a lot. In my view, the Empire may win on a greater-good basis, but the Stormcloaks take the fashion prize by a mile.

[Just_Mad ●]

I voted for the Empire, that said, I enjoyed the Stormcloak quest-line more, I know the quests were practically mirrored, but seizing Whiterun was more fun than defending, and the post-siege confrontations between leaders, (first Baalgruf, then Tullius) were better on the Stormcloak side.

In terms of Ideology, which, I think this thread was more focused on, definitely the Empire. Reiterating the point that almost all the Empire Supporters here have raised, a standalone province could not stand against the Thalmor after having just finished a civil war. Sure, Hammerfell managed to drive out the Thalmor, but they hadn't just been ravaged by Dragons and just won a civil war. People don't seem to pick up on the fact that one of Ulfric's main qualms about the oppressing Thalmor is their theology of Elven Supremacy, and yet, his own intentions are to make Skyrim a Nord-focused culture, and he is, in simplest form, downright racist to others.

Civil War (Both faction) Quest-line spoilers ahead:

Spoiler:

I think it rather disappointing that true Empire fans will never learn of Tullius' awareness of the bigger picture. In his dying moments, he tells Ulfric:
"You realize this is exactly what they wanted...The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."
It gives me hope as a Legion fan that they have always been building a plan to overthrow the Dominion.

It does disappoint me, that the armies themselves are almost mirrored as well. I always imagined that the Imperials would be more like the Roman Legions they were based upon, fighting using tactics and discipline, standardised equipment and training, whereas the Stormcloaks would be closer to the more Barbarian factions of history, relying on the brute force of sheer numbers to overcome the better-trained opponents.

[dozer1771 ●]

The part of the First - This is not your Uncle Septim's Empire. This dumbed-down, gully-washed, skeleton of a [&@%!] child holds only the name of the pride and glory of Talos. I don't believe the Septim Empire would have turned its back on Hammerfell or allowed the propigation(sp?) of misbelief that followed the Void Nights. The Septims would have listened to the Blades, realised the threat the Thalmor posed, and dealt with it immediately. The new Empire's "Kill`em all, let the Eight sort`em out!" attitude put me off to start with.

The part of the Second - Stormcloaks, by and large, are a group of over-zealous, racist pigs. "This is our homeland, no one but us should live here!" If I read my lore correctly, both dwemer and snow-elf called Skyrim home before you. (And maybe breton and dunmer, but I'm not 100% on that.) Reminds me very much of what my Anglican ancestors did to found the "American Homeland"

I have played 17 characters in Skyrim. Two have played thru the civil war. One nord, one imperial - just to see the storyline. It was nicely written, with heroic moments for both sides. I'm not hatin' on the story; just not a fan of either side, so I generally stay neural.

[Kerr ●]

The 'peace' between the Thalmor and the Empire is more of a temporary non-aggression pact than being true allies. They both hate each other. There is going to be another war and both sides know it.

Ulfric Stormcloak has pretty cool clothes.

[Br3admax ●]

Yeah, I look nice in them.

[Khali ●]

As I said in a earlier thread, I'm for the Empire. United we stand divided we fall(to the Thalmore).

(those of you that would like to go further in a Empire quest line should go check out the Skyrim mod part of the forum)

[Baloth-Kul ●]

I put Ulfric Stormcloak's clothes on a mannequin in my house, and his corpse in the middle of the dining table in the Hall of Kings, for all of the deposed Jarls to stare at as they eat their food.

[Br3admax ●]

I knew that there was a reason that we liked you, Baloth.