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| Trinimac's Faithful http://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=37222 |
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| Author: | Secret Magic User [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Trinimac's Faithful |
I've always been interested in the Orcs and their culture, however, another group of people I'm interested in is who the Orcs were before they were the Orcs. Before the Ages of Man tells us that their ancestors were beastpeoples, but, does that mean they were some sort of proto-man or (small pun intended) bipedal pig? The author of this book is Aicantar of Shimerene, and, Aicantar sounds like a decidedly Altmeri name, so could his definition of the word "beastpeople" be broader, and more inclusive of early Humans than a Human's definition might be? The only thing that I really know about them is that they worshiped Trinimac, who is an Elven god, and that Trinimac's followers opposed the Velothi exodus. So, were they Aldmer, or some form of "beast people" in the service, and under the cultural sway, of the Aldmer? |
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| Author: | Marelo [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Aldmer, almost certainly. |
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| Author: | CBR JGWRR [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
That. They were just aldmer who revered Trinimac in particular. |
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| Author: | Secret Magic User [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
So, in this case, what's in Before the Ages of Man should be disregarded? Quote: During the early Merethic Era, the aboriginal beastpeoples of Tamriel -- the ancestors of the Khajiit, Argonian, Orcish, and other beastfolk -- lived in preliterate communities throughout Tamriel.
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| Author: | Woodhouse [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Yea, and the hist are the relatives of the Argonians... |
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| Author: | CBR JGWRR [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Yep. This isn't the only bit Before the Ages messed up - you've highlighted one of the others there, the illiteracy of the other races is incorrect, the dating of the creation of orcs to the wrong era... BTAOM was written by a stuck up (as is normal for them) altmer. Treat it as such - they still maintain goblins as slaves in the 4th era, and it wasn't until Morrowind orcs were even considered a race in their own right. What chance did they have back then... |
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| Author: | Minor Edits [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Not disregarded, just understood for what it is: a scholar stating what he believes to be certain. The Orcs are outcasts; what more absolute way is there to cast someone out than by shunning them genealogically? From his perspective, they never were elves. There are (possibly intentional) discrepancies in the timeline which suggest the Orcs lived in Tamriel long before the Transformation of Trinimac, which the elven historical records say occurred in the middle of the Merethic Era. Aicantar likely thinks that's the unassailable truth. On this matter, he's a zealot. I imagine most Altmer are. But that was not the middle Merethic Era, it was the latter days of the Dawn Era. It's possible a Dragon Break caused the confusion. There's a small chance that the author didn't even realize this was a controversial point at the time he wrote this. Look at "The True Nature of Orcs": Quote: Orcs were born during the latter days of the Dawn Era. History has mislabeled them beastfolk, related to the goblin races, but the Orcs are actually the children of Trinimac, strongest of the Altmeri ancestor spirits. The text is clearly presenting an antithesis to Aicantar's thesis. We have many significant reasons to believe that the Orcs are elves, such as the Skyrim quest Discerning the Transmundane, which requires the player to recover the blood of an Orc, along with all other elven races. The synthesis, the reasonable conclusion, is that at some point, some cabal of Altmeri decision-makers either misunderstood or intentionally misrepresented the historical narrative, as they had the means, the motive, and the opportunity to do so. So, as Marelo said, Aldmer, almost certainly. |
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| Author: | Secret Magic User [ Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Thanks all for your input and clarifications. I knew I came to the right place. I thought the author being Altmer might have something to do with it, but, I didn't see the subtext or counter-point when I read "The True Nature Of Orcs" (thank God it wasn't a snake lol), or the flawed dating in BTAOM, as compared to some other sources. |
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| Author: | Minor Edits [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Sorry to necropost, but I thought it was worth pointing out that Aicantar of Shimmerene, the Before the Ages of Man author, is also the author of the ESO book Crimes of the Daggerfall Covenant, in which his anti-Orc prejudice is more overt. |
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| Author: | Ilaro [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Also from another TESO book some very sparse new information about trinimac/mauloch/malacath http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Mauloch,_Orc-Father |
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| Author: | Woodhouse [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trinimac's Faithful |
Hey Mephala makes an appearance! In the exodus of Veloth stories, Boethia always center stage, leaving me to wonder what, if any, roles that Mephala or Azura played. Hopefully there will be more insight on this as more books turn up |
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