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It has never been confirmed what race he is, but wouldn't he be a Nord since he was part of the 500 companions form Atmora?

Well it calls into question if there was only one>_> and not a title applied to a few. The original would definitely be nordic. The rest, well could easily be a blend of any men races, or even a hint of elven 0.o

Yeah, I was always of the impression that he should've been Nord rather than Imperial too...

I've aired my views already here, which is what I assume prompted this discussion.

We have one piece of OOG saying someone named "Pelinal" was one of the 500 Companions, giving the implication this person was Atmoran. Even if we were to assume this person was Pelinal Whitestrake, this is meaningless compared to official sources, which say he was a Nibenay warlord, as well as Oblivion itself, which portrayed him with the Imperial character model. Bethesda has given us every reason to believe he was an Imperial, and the implication of one piece of OOG (most of which, by the way, is gibberish) doesn't come close to refuting that.

As for the idea that he's some sort of god to whom a race cannot be applied, all we apparently have are suspicions which shouldn't get in the way of conveying what we do know about him. This is pretty open and shut.

^Very true, an argument that is quiet sound, though I could not help but picture you as a skeptic on various information.

It is true, we have what we know as facts set in stone, and then info we should take in caution. That is what makes lore interesting and at the same time annoying>_< because theories exist to try and fill gaps and explain things, but regardless they remain as theories.
I still like the idea of Pelinal being a name used upon many>_> it seems like the most plausible. Ironically>_> a time traveling hero is not so far fetched.. "elder scrolls" cough cough..
But to get back on the topic, it does sit well to call him an Imperial, though the former heroes may as well been Atmoran or other<_<

In theory, he should be Atmoran but he was shown as an Imperial in Knight Of The Nine but that was most likely due to Bethesda not wanting to create a unqiue model for a character that only appeared for a minute or two. However, I think that Pelinal was just a Companion and the one that fought the Alyeids was a completly different one. I would say that he was an Imperial as Pelinial does sound like an Imperial name but Whitestrake hints at a Nordic name. Hmm, i wonder if Pelinial was a forgotten god and appears via several avatars on Nirn up untill the COC and chose him to be Pelinial Whitestrake's reincarnation?

That MK piece is hardly gibberish. It's simply written in a unique style meant to mimic Nordic oral tradition, and it's supposed to be an alternate version of the 500 from the official source. It kinda hurts your eyes and head to look at if you try to take it all in at once, but if you ignore the huge lists of names it tells a coherent story about a fleet migrating from continent to continent.

He specifically wrote thisfor a reason. Lore is a fuzzy thing. The word "lore" does not mean "canon" or "what really happened."

Indeed, the Nords freely admit their mythic haberdashery, and take great delight in mish-mashing their legends together (and the legends of others, even their historic enemies, the Aldmer and Orsimer) into “whatever just tells a good story at feast time.” As their Clever Men are fond of saying, “The snows melt and then freeze again and in the end it is all still so much water. Legends are the same.”

Pelinal probably wasn't from Atmora. Neither was Talos in all likelihood. It makes for one hell of a story, though. It's simply a Nordic attribute of strength and virility. It reminds me of the Nord Tongues in Vivec's Sermons who were invariably described as "bearded kings". You get the impression that bearded kings are a big thing in Nord society, too. In fact it goes so far as to suggest Ysmir ALWAYS appears this way, but since we play as a person with that title in Skyrim (bestowed by the Greybeards) who can be nonmale or even nonhuman we know this isn't true. But it's a good story.

Theres a story of pelinial visiting skyrim and the nords believing he was shor. That seems to hint at him being at least nordic in apperance. I doubt race matters much to him tho, he may even be able to alter his apperance for all we know.

Or the fact that he is Shezzarine. It has nothing to do with looking Nordic.

He was from the future, so I like to imagine him as an Imperial. Even though he was amongst the Companions.

Then again, does he really even have a "race"? Not only is he an avatar of Lorkhatosh, but MK describes him as a cyborg-like robot as well.

I'm just going to post this part a 2nd time>_> seeing as it may have been overlooked by some.

In reality we know only a few facts about Pelinal or any historical heroes. We have our theories and tales, but in the end that's what they are. We know there may have been more than one Pelinal, we know he helped fight the elves and has a hero among men, and we can easily accept that he had divine favor<_< but we face so many problems relating to his truth and what most choose to accept.

We can't exactly use the Songs' as creditable source, especially when little of it is sound>_< we don't even know what exactly a Shezzarine is<_< yet we do know around that era is was very popular to paint heroes and warriors as such, creating a more exciting tale. The time travel thing, it is very plausible<_< but it can easily be faked by the author. Lastly the aspect thing, Akatosh could very well had him as an aspect>_> but Lorkhan is not the same. Only a few were confirmed, and how often are the devs willing to such that?
All in all, it helps create an image for a grander hero, even taking a striking image similar to real world counterparts>_<

I'm pretty sure you're arguing against things I'm not actually saying at all. Maybe you should go over my post again. I'm saying lore is not the same as reality. The more reliable sources paint Pelinal as a warlord from Nibenay, but lore isn't all about reliable sources. Lore is simply all the gathered data - including fringe beliefs - on a certain subject. Folk tales count, too. I'm sure there are plenty of Nords who would like to claim Pelinal and Morihaus because of their actions against Elves, and so they do. Doesn't make it true but this isn't the truth forum. It's the lore forum.

I'm with Pilaf in stating that he never said any of or all of this things were fact or fiction.


If it's in game, then it is lore. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, especially in a medieval setting.


Yes we do; you might not, but we do.

So everyone or no one? Just because some people aren't doesn't mean that all aren't. I'm Br3ad,=; if someone else calls you Br3ad, did that make me less Br3ad? No.


It's actually the least plausible thing.


Yes they are, also flip the script. "Shared madness." Seriously. Akatosh and Lorkhan are the same by their very nature. Base-level lore, dude. If anything, debate if he is an avatar of Akatosh. We already know that he is Shezzarine.


Oh so using god weapons that you yourself can use isn't enough? Does he have to turn into a dragon for you to believe? It's already obvious that he is a great hero; the gods blessed him. I thought that reliving his story in the present and slaying a Daedric Elf in Oblivion over the Imperial City would be enough. I guess I was wrong. Someone shouldn't have to come right out and tell you.

Yeah. I'd say the fact that Pelinal was able to wield powerful relics directly from the gods which nobody else has been able to simultaneously wield except the CoC puts him at a new level. The tale about either him or Shezarr giving Alessia the Amulet of Kings on her deathbed seems based on a historical event as well. It's widely documented in multiple sources. This would have been many years after his death, and yet he attended her funeral.

I'm not trying to say he said this or that<_< but there exists a difference between sound facts and theory, even if both are lore or related. It's not to say everything is wrong and only one can be right>_> but a skeptic should properly call much into question. Yes, in all tales some truth persists, though however stretched or manipulated it may be.
I just used the quote as a reminder, the majority was my own. I tried to keep personal theories out, sticking with only certain evidence even if I strongly believe a theory explains it.
Still, I am aware rarely Pilaf says other than what can be well supported by creditable sources and even then avoids evidence that can just as easily contradict itself>_> then again this is based on what I witness and is my opinion>_> not his
As for the Songs, I never said it wasn't lore>_> as for most threads and forums, do they not exist mainly for discussion? Means of trying to explain the game and make sense of it?
Anyways I'm dropping off>_> don't wanna spiral more off topic>_<

There is a point where being too skeptical renders everything lore discussion useless. We are given historical information and to operate under the assumption that it's false for the sake of it does nothing for lore discussion.

Yes historical accounts will vary, no we don't have any reason to believe that what we are given is all wrong or skewed.

Lore is a credible source, Beta. By saying that it isn't a credible source, you are saying that it isn't lore. It is. Life isn't black and white; but it's full of grays; to have good theories, we must lean towards the shades.

True.

....are you Bretonspellsword by any chance? I swear there's a thread at Bethsoft this very second where he's claiming we can't believe anything at all because some sources contradict. That's not skepticism. That's psuedo-skepticism. If you start questioning everything just for the sake of questioning it, next thing you know you're Alex Jones and you think aliens from outer space are wearing human skin and creating tornadoes to kill poor white people. That's not good for you or me.

What thread is it? I have an account and never commented.

Well, at Whitestrake's time, weren't there still not very strict classifications of Nords and Imperials? They were all Atmoran people, so they were proto-Nords, right? They were part of the race that developed into Nords, Bretons, and Imperials. Correct me if I'm wrong, please; I'm not too good with early human lore.

Short answer: no, there were no few classifications during the Alessian Slave Rebellion circa 1E 242-243. "Proto-Imperial" is an abstract and retroactive label for the biological influences on the modern Imperial bloodlines. Only first generation immigrants from Atmora would really be considered Atmorans in the parlance of most cultures. The descendants of these immigrants are known as Nedes.

At this moment in history, the Nords, the descendants of the Nedic peoples who stayed in Skyrim (especially following the Return in the Late Mythic Era) had essentially emerged as a distinct race. Except for in the Reach, their gene pool was pretty much set by then, and they had formed their own empire. Not so in other parts of Tamriel. The Bretons were still the "Manmer", and still very much emergent. They wouldn't hold any real power in High Rock for over two centuries. There may have been humans in Morrowind, but they didn't survive long. Many Nedes also resided in Hammerfell at the time, which they called the Deathlands. The Redguards are not thought to have arrived there for another five centuries. There's also some suggestion that there were multiple, distinct sub-races in Atmora. Besides all these external variables who may have influenced the gene pool of the modern-day Imperial race, the Nedes in Cyrodiil had existed in many different, distinct tribes, possibly as a result of groups of them migrating to the region separately over many centuries. They would spend another 2,500 years congealing into two main socio-political groups, Nordic-leaning Colovians and Nedic-leaning Nibenese, which were then finally united under Reman Cyrodiil. The following centuries of unity and prosperity under the Reman Empire is probably the earliest time period you could say that a coherent Imperial race emerged.

But none of that matters when it comes to Pelinal. Just when is "Whitestrake's time"? The lore tells us he wore armor from the future. He praised the name Reman. He showed up at Alessia's deathbed decades after his death. We have substantial reason to think that he may have been some sort of time traveler, and that 1E 243 was actually his relative past. Therefore, the fact that the Imperial race is not thought to have emerged yet as of 1E 243 does not preclude Pelinal from having been what would be considered an Imperial.

Ugh, doesn't time travel just ruin everything? Or at least make it more difficult to make predictions...

I've never accepted the theory that Nedes are Atmorans, once the proper 'evidence' was shown. I don't see why anyone would.

^Indeed, the "Out of Atmora" theory is just too simplistic and tidy to be the truth. The existence of the Redguards supports the contention that there were multiple wellsprings of creation in ancient times. It's very possible that many of the Nedic peoples were humans indigenous to Tamriel.