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 Post subject: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Clearly a Japanese name IRL. Well, Shinji is, anyway (see Ikari and Matou). What race is he in-game, one of the Akaviri ones? I know that the Fighters Guild and the Blades have Akaviri origins. Isn't that like if I made a Dunmer named Kotaro Fuuma?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Shinji has never appeared in person. I would say the he was almost definitely some kind of human, however. If I had to guess, I'd say Redguard specifically.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Shinji was a Redguard warrior. The founder and leader of the knightly order of Diagna. He died during one of several sieges of Orsinium.

The out of game reason for his Japanese sounding name was that this was early on during the development of TES lore as we know it today, and many of the elements that were later more heavily associated with Akavir were dispersed among the Redguards, Altmer and Dunmer instead. Even the name of the Redguards' ancestral homeland, Yokuda, sounds like a Japanese word.

There's possibly a lore explanation for this as well. Yokuda and Akavir could actually be the same place, or very close to one another on the globe. Yokuda was far to the west of Tamriel and Akavir far to the east. It's possible they're so close to one another that there's some strong blood and cultural relation between them. The theory that they're literally the same place is problematic however, as Yokuda was said to be shattered or sunk (not clear which) and Akavir is apparently still there, at least 500 years before the events of Skyrim which was quite a bit after Yokuda met its end. Strangely, Yokuda still appears on trade routes as of 4E200, but it's been theorized that scattered islands remain, not the entire continent.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:35 pm 
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I don't get the second question. If you mean names, names mean nothing. Look at Brand-Shi.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:40 pm 
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A Dunmer could actually have a Japanese sounding name if you wanted him to.

Akaviri and Redguards marry in with other races all the time. The second empire portion of the first PGE mentions Akaviri noblemen integrated quite well into the Niben Valley in Cyrodill. We also know many of those families married in with Dunmer, especially Hlaalu. I see no reason why a Dunmer with parents in Cyrodill couldn't have an Akaviri sounding name.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:13 pm 
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On a side note, Gaiden Shinji is a warrior, but typically, in anime, the name "Shinji" is usually used on wimpier characters (like the two mentioned above).


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Well, it's not really associated with weakness, rather, it's simply a fairly common name. For what it's worth two of its most relevant meanings for this context are "true ruler" and "devotee (specifically religious)." Gaiden, on the other hand, means anecdote. I doubt there was much thought put into choosing his name, instead I'm sure they simply attempted to come up with a name that sounded Japanese. Still sort of interesting, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:29 pm 
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MidbossVyers wrote:
On a side note, Gaiden Shinji is a warrior, but typically, in anime, the name "Shinji" is usually used on wimpier characters (like the two mentioned above).



I'm not sure what the original etymology of the word Shinji was or why the devs chose to name him that. This is Daggerfall era lore. The Redguards seemed to be named differently back then. A google search yielded that Shinji means "True Ruler", which seems to suit his status as a legendary Redguard culture hero.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:35 pm 
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Annecdote [of the] True Ruler, sounds legit.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Or, if we assume that Japanese naming conventions (surname, given name) were used, "True Ruler (of house/clan) Anecdote." :lol: ...I think I like yours better!


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Glyre wrote:
Or, if we assume that Japanese naming conventions (surname, given name) were used, "True Ruler (of house/clan) Anecdote." :lol: ...I think I like yours better!

I think it's yours when you consider Molag Bal and his "daughter". Maybe it's True Ruler of Annecdote

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:46 pm 
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BTW, the term 'Redguard' is a mashup of the true name: Ra Garda.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:19 am 
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Another example of Asian naming conventions is Indoril Nerevar's family name is Indoril.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:41 am 
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Dark Spark wrote:
BTW, the term 'Redguard' is a mashup of the true name: Ra Garda.


Close.

Ra Gada.

Means "Warrior Wave" on the old Yoku language.


Also, the anecdote thing is interesting and could tie into the Sword Singing tradition of the Ansei mystics. I hope to see this in a future game. It would be fun to find Memory Stones and learn Sword Singing techniques. It could work on a similar scale to Dragon Shouts in Skyrim.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Arent their 2 different factions in Hammerfell , the Crowns and Forbears ?
perhaps each group has a different way of naming , as in most who belong to one group or align themselves with it name their children arabic sounding names , and the others who side with the other group use Yokudan names (though i cant specify which would do which)

I've always been interested in Yokuda , we know so little about it .

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Crowns and Forebears have always existed, but the tensions between the two groups wax and wane depending on what's going on in world politics. The Forebears were actually the descendents of the Ra Gada. Ironically, they're usually the first to side with foreigners. I'm not sure if they'd support the Thalmor though.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:47 am 
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It's not so much that they side with the foreigners as them being less intent on tradition and more on being cosmopolitan. The Empire is good for trade, good for the middle classes, so the Forbears 'support' them (they originally did it reluctantly, and it came back to bite them). The Thalmor want to wipe out humanity, ain't no way a Redguard is supporting that.

Forbears and Crowns do have different naming patterns. The Forbears have more common names, like Cyrus or Jim, while the Crowns have more exotic names, like Sura or Ayaan-si.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:23 am 
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A slight error in the difference between Forebears and Crowns, a Cyrus, the Cyrus to be exact, was probably one of the most famous Crowns to ever exist. That could simply be from the outdated lore of Adventures, I shrug to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Nah...I wouldn't consider the lore from that game outdated. It was recently used as a reliable source for the Dwemeri alphabet study that TIL did, and Todd Howard still considers it and its inclusion of a Dragon canon according to comments he made in the "making of" documentary for Skyrim.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Pilaf The Defiler wrote:
Nah...I wouldn't consider the lore from that game outdated. It was recently used as a reliable source for the Dwemeri alphabet study that TIL did, and Todd Howard still considers it and its inclusion of a Dragon canon according to comments he made in the "making of" documentary for Skyrim.


okay so you dismiss an actual published game as non-canon, but you latch onto an ex-employees forum posts like he is jesus returned to earth . . . okay go ahead.

now on topic, I doubt there is much of a relation between akavir and yokuda (although it wouldnt surprise me at all) but redguard culture is not as unified as breton or nord culture. It has the yokudans who are vsomewhat romani-like, you got hte desert folk, and coastal folk who seem to dress very differently and have different weapons . . . some images of their culture even tend to remind me of the Renaissance or at least teh crude pastiche of the Renaissance era that my local ren-fair puts together.

Shinji wouldnt be a weird name for a redguard at all in my opinion . . . but . . .

Are you sure this character isnt imperial?

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Gaiden was the leader of the Order of Diagna, a Hammerfell knight order that was involved in the famed siege of Orsinium. It would be surprising at best if an Imperial lead an order of this sort, he is presumed to be Redguard.

Yokudans are what the Redguard were before Yokuda was "destroyed", the later phonetic corruption of Ra-Gada into Redguard by those that dwelled in Hammerfell previously is where they became Redguard. The race is primarily divided into the Crowns, supporters of the old ways, and the more cosmopolitan Forebears.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Ralok wrote:
okay so you dismiss an actual published game as non-canon, but you latch onto an ex-employees forum posts like he is jesus returned to earth . . . okay go ahead.


What in the actual world are you talking about? I feel like I have to ask at this point. You keep spouting that over and over.

What game am I dismissing exactly?

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now on topic, I doubt there is much of a relation between akavir and yokuda (although it wouldnt surprise me at all) but redguard culture is not as unified as breton or nord culture. It has the yokudans who are vsomewhat romani-like, you got hte desert folk, and coastal folk who seem to dress very differently and have different weapons . . . some images of their culture even tend to remind me of the Renaissance or at least teh crude pastiche of the Renaissance era that my local ren-fair puts together.


I was saying there was a superficial resemblance. I never said I actually believed they were the same. I even mentioned why that was improbable.

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Shinji wouldnt be a weird name for a redguard at all in my opinion . . . but . . .

Are you sure this character isnt imperial?


Pretty sure we have no reason to believe he's Imperial since he was the leader of a Redguard knightly order. Sure, they wouldn't exclude Imperials from their ranks or anything but he was the leader and founder.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:16 am 
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I . . . didnt say you were saying they were the same . . . huh?

see if he was an imperial then you could possibly link the name to an akaviri origin. At this point I am inclined to believe that there is a greek-language thing going on with the akaviri (tsaesci at least) which would be interesting to see that sort of language and naming aesthetic applied to a visually japanese/asiatic culture

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:26 am 
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Ralok, unless you have some sort of evidence, stop posting things contradictory to the evidence already presented.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaiden Shinji?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:37 am 
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Musicman247 wrote:
Ralok, unless you have some sort of evidence, stop posting things contradictory to the evidence already presented.


sorry about that, I was just explaining why I had that thought of him being an imperial. I guess I didnt explain that so well.

but I am now wondering if there is anything between yokuda and akavir and how far we east of akavir you owuld have to travil to hit yokuda.

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