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Lore and Information on Giants?
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Author:  The Silent Striker [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Lore and Information on Giants?
Does anyone have any lore on giants? I am searching for information on the giant's history. Any information, however small, is appreciated. As a certain crazy wood elf behind the chapel would say; 'I'll make it worth your while!' :mrgreen:
Author:  Sloady [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
In Daggerfall, you could talk to them in Giantish to prevent them from attacking. Having a language implies that they have some semblance of societal structure. They clearly graze animals (Mammoths), and therefore are farmers, instead of hunter/gatherers. They have the ability to make fires, and may make tools out of the mammoth tusks (not confirmed, simply speculation).

We don't really have much information on them, however, most of this is deduced from other facts, from behaviour in game, or from their camps.
Author:  OblivionDuruza [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
We know that the giants in Skyrim have a special relationship with the Mammoths, acting as herders and protecting them fiercely. This suggests some degree of symbiosis between the two species, and there is also evidence of some form of higher level sentience in the giants as far as their ability to make tools, etc.
Author:  The Silent Striker [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
They seem like pre-historic creatures, much like neathandrels [Sic?]. Anyway, are there female giants in the game? I haven't seen one yet. Also, does anyone have information on mammoths? Thanks for the help so far.
Author:  Chaos the N'wah [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
What I want to know is what connection, if any, do the Skyrim giants have with Karstaag from Bloodmoon...
And while I'm on Bloodmoon, what about the Grahl?
Author:  Velothi [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
It is an interesting creature - but I think only located in Solsthiem due to Solsthiems own natural location and relationship with Hircine moreso than Dragons.
Author:  Chaos the N'wah [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
I know of no connection between Grahls and Hircine, nor did he have that strong of a hold on Solsthiem. They will probably go unexplained...

But Karstaag is a different story, he is a giant, but looks nothing like his Skyrim 'brethren' except for height; In fact, he looks like he has more in common with Frost Trolls than Skyrim Giants...
Author:  Velothi [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Maybe he's a mutated form of Frost troll?
Author:  Fist [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
I read recently (In the Imperial Library that Giants are how the Dwemer are called Dwarfs.

The Imperial Library wrote:
Long time ago, Dwemer met and made friends with a race of intelligent Giants. The Giants would call their Elven neighbours "Dwarves". Eventually, others adopted this name for the Dwemer as well.


I guess this would suggest Giants being friendly towards elves, at least in Morrowind
Author:  Chaos the N'wah [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Velothi wrote:
Maybe he's a mutated form of Frost troll?

Unlikely, he is massive compared to Trolls, has four eyes instead of three, and is implied to be able to not only speak, but is intelligent.

If I had to guess his origin, I'd say that he was either A) An ancestral throwback of giants that moved to Solsthiem and the giants of Skyrim changed with the changing seasons or B) The same scenario, but with trolls instead of Giants.
He could even be a sort of missing link between the two "races"...since we don't know the origins of Giants in the first place
Author:  Godkiller [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Some of this is speculation, some of this is legit lore;

Karstaag is a "Frost Giant". Don't ask me where I heard this, haven't played Morrowind in a while. I'm pretty sure Hircine said it somewhere.

Grahl, I'd imagine, were Solstheim-specific creatures. Some of them were even involved in rituals that could take place only on Solstheim. (Sun Grahl)

Also, Hircine does have a firm grip on Solstheim, but it seems this grip is only felt during the Bloodmoon...which is due in the year that the Dragons return...hmm...expansion to return to Solstheim?

The Giants in Skyrim have pointed ears. This leads me to research all different types of Mer to see if they are some kind of long-lost elven race...I'll get back to you once I've done the research. These Giants are also much more intelligent than they seem. If you manage to get into one of their camps to check it out, some of these camps will have bowl-like things that contain mammoth cheese. In a random encounter, you may see a farmer bringing a painted cow to a Giant camp, where the Giant then leads the cow into the camp and the farmer walks away unharmed. Not sure what this is all about, but one might think that Giants are smart enough to trade with other races somehow.
Author:  Chaos the N'wah [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Godkiller wrote:
Some of this is speculation, some of this is legit lore;

Karstaag is a "Frost Giant". Don't ask me where I heard this, haven't played Morrowind in a while. I'm pretty sure Hircine said it somewhere.

Grahl, I'd imagine, were Solstheim-specific creatures. Some of them were even involved in rituals that could take place only on Solstheim. (Sun Grahl)

Also, Hircine does have a firm grip on Solstheim, but it seems this grip is only felt during the Bloodmoon...which is due in the year that the Dragons return...hmm...expansion to return to Solstheim?

Frost trolls aren't as drastically different to normal ones as Karstaag to normal giants, same can be said of wolves and bears. I'm not debating the name, he is called frost giant by Hircine and some other places.

And I wouldn't call 'once an era' as having a firm grip on the island, his presence there is not that different from the other Princes, I wouldn't say Sheogorath had a hold over Cyrodiil despite the gate in the bay.

On pointy ears, I doubt they're related to mer, more likely they are related to one of the numerous beast races like trolls, goblins, etc.
Author:  Contagious Cure [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
The Silent Striker wrote:
They seem like pre-historic creatures, much like neathandrels [Sic?]. Anyway, are there female giants in the game? I haven't seen one yet. Also, does anyone have information on mammoths? Thanks for the help so far.

Maybe the females look the same as the males and you've just been incredibly insensitive all this time :shock:
Author:  Pilaf The Defiler [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Aren't the Ehlnofey, the ancestor spirits between Aedra and Mortals, supposed to have been depicted as giants? They're the ones who named the Dwemer "Dwarves". According to MK, whose word isn't always canon but who does have an insight into the lore and a friendship with Bethesda writers even today, the ancestors of Skyrim's giants were once intelligent and friendly, and spoke to the Nords. They're also possibly cousins to modern humans - if both races descended from the Ehlnofey, as all sentient races of Tamriel are said to have done - men, elf, beast, ogre, goblin or otherwise.
Author:  legoless [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
As has been said above, Karstaag is a frost giant. Different from a giant, and apparently unique to Solstheim (all three references to the species have been set there).

There's quite a bit of human-giant interaction going on in Skyrim. For example: an Orc stronghold was weakened and the giants now don't respect their boundaries; the giants leave farmers alone as long as they give the giants an annual offering; the player apparently sells a goat to a giant in return for gold.

The giants also understand ritualistic paintings, which can be found on their livestock and rocks near their camps. Combine this with the Giantish language present in Daggerfall, and giants are suddenly a lot more impressive that the common ogre. Plus, they know how to make cheese, so that puts them in my good books.

Also, on the whole origin of the name "dwarves": that's just Bethesda's excuse for the Dwemer not actually being small. Similar to how the dragons were driven away from Red Mountain by all the cliff racers.
Author:  Pilaf The Defiler [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
The ritualistic paintings and the swirls on the giants and mammoth tusks are a reference to the Seven Fights of the Aludagga

Fight Six, the 911th cow, to be specific:

Here is why: the Giants came from Old Atmora, up there across the Northern Ice back in the gone-to-twilight-now age of myth... and settled here in the Skyrim, and all along the mountain ranges of our coasts. (Yes, they are our true ancestors-- do not believe your aunt from the university-- and, yes, we were once as big as them-- as tall as THIS-- but that is another story)... [text lost]... and after [the Great Calamity] happened [the clan-things (peoples? tribes? Text seems to indicate mankind as a whole, though that is debateable)]... we were of a kind disrupted... and we Nords fell into fighting and drove our Giant-kin up unto the mountaintops [and we were a wicked-folk for many years]... [until all] things had changed forever. Once the Moot resumed [(unspecified) years later] things got back to a new semblance of normalcy and borders were redrawn and agreed with in beer-talk, and raidings of the merethlands took everyone's mind off old feuds, and pretty soon (well, not pretty soon but whatever) the Giants began to come down from the mountains again. And they were a bit different than we Nords remembered, or perhaps we had forgotten much, but they would not speak to us anymore-- they would only smile in their lazy way, stomp over, and take our stuff.

If we fought them, they roared louder than the Tongues of High Hrothgar, and brave steads would be blasted whole into so much paste, [chickens and all (?)]... [and] eventually we learned that if we left stuff out for the Giants, and painted this stuff brightly and with swirls (they love swirls) and stuck big signs up pointing to it all, they would simply take THAT stuff and not anything else and no fighting would be have to be done (not that what I have described was really fighting-- no one fights the Giants is the point). And that explains the Painting The Cows tradition, for as lazily-smiled as they are, so much that they seem that they wouldn't hurt a soul (ha!), the Giants eat meat and lots of it. Aless (remember her still?) thought to herself, "I am so, so afraid the Dragon will awake and eat the world-- ANY DAY NOW-- that I will paint every cow I see so as to summon all the Giants I can to beat up old Scaly Face, and beat him up really, really hard-- hard enough to knock him out and back to sleep!" (Aless had heard, as you have now, that "no one fights the Giants" and took it a little bit too much to heart.)
Author:  Dark Spark [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
legoless wrote:
... Similar to how the dragons were driven away from Red Mountain by all the cliff racers.

If I had wings the span of a 737, I'd get as far away from those annoying lil' critters myself. :wink:
Author:  Chaos the N'wah [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Pilaf The Defiler wrote:
Aren't the Ehlnofey, the ancestor spirits between Aedra and Mortals, supposed to have been depicted as giants? They're the ones who named the Dwemer "Dwarves". According to MK, whose word isn't always canon but who does have an insight into the lore and a friendship with Bethesda writers even today, the ancestors of Skyrim's giants were once intelligent and friendly, and spoke to the Nords. They're also possibly cousins to modern humans - if both races descended from the Ehlnofey, as all sentient races of Tamriel are said to have done - men, elf, beast, ogre, goblin or otherwise.

We have no clear understanding of what the Ehlnofey looked like, not to mention the fact that the term has three definitions and that when referring to them as ancestors for mortals, Ehlnofey only applies as a vague term, after landing on Nirn they are referred as the Old Ehlnofey (ancestors of the Aldmer) and the Wanderers (Men)

Also how would the Dwemer be named by their ancestors?
Author:  Pilaf The Defiler [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Still, they're almost certainly sentient, and have a written language of their own. (Swirls, which apparently have tribal meaning to them. Possibly a representation of wind, associated with Kyne). They're likely descended from the same source as all mortal bipedal races of Nirn - from some group of the Ehlnofey. If not direct ancestors then cousins or brother species that developed a little differently.

And you're right. We're not given firm definitions or physical descriptions of the Ancestors. The Dragons seem to have some of their characteristics as well. In fact the Dov are probably closer to the Aedra than any other race we've met so far, but still pretty far from divine.

I wouldn't overlook that MK story I linked to either. The devs of Skyrim liked it enough to include swirled cows as a random encounter in the game, and to decorate giants and mammoths with those patterns.

Another possible connection between giants and ancient Nords - notice the designs on Draugr armor. It's easiest to see them on the loading screens when they show up, or on a dead one of course. They have the same sorts of swirl patterns engraved on pieces of their armor. It's visible on the pauldrons. This suggests that the ancient Nords and the giants shared a similar way of writing, which hints at a connection between them. I realize their Dragon overlords used a runic writing system, but that doesn't mean the human slaves didn't have a tongue of their own.

edit: Yet another clue to their intelligence and their mastery of lost techniques - during a quest in Skyrim to repair a legendary alchemist's flask, one of the ingredients is finely ground mammoth tusks. Apparently they're harder than iron and only the giants understand the techniques to grind them down. The quest giver didn't mention it was because of their great strength but because of their mastery of principles of craftsmanship and alchemy that they can craft this substance.
Author:  the Savage Hippie [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
I have only tried Skyrim a little bit. I wonder, have any of you guys spoken with a giant yet? I remember when the gameplay trailer was first released that I was psyched that they were actually not hostile creatures. However the little time I've spent in Skyrim I've only encountered one giant and he was getting killed. So can you speak to them or was that pulled out of the game? Perhaps you need a charm spell or the ability to speak giantish?
Author:  legoless [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
the Savage Hippie wrote:
I have only tried Skyrim a little bit. I wonder, have any of you guys spoken with a giant yet? I remember when the gameplay trailer was first released that I was psyched that they were actually not hostile creatures. However the little time I've spent in Skyrim I've only encountered one giant and he was getting killed. So can you speak to them or was that pulled out of the game? Perhaps you need a charm spell or the ability to speak giantish?

As far as I'm aware, they're mute. They make slight grunting noises, but trying to approach one will turn it hostile.

Edit: They apparently made noise in Daggerfall (sound file).
Author:  the Savage Hippie [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
So the talking to giants feature has most likely been withdrawn?
Author:  Dark Spark [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
Or reserved for some future DLC.

Welcome to the 21st Century, suckers.
Author:  Pilaf The Defiler [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
It was recently revealed on a forum post by a dev that some content was cut during either the main quest or the civil war quest that would have involved bartering with giants to curry favor, by offering them painted livestock so they'd help you fight your enemies. Also, during the Sanguine quest, when you wake up after a night of hard drinking, you learn you and Sanguine sold a man's goat to a giant, which means that in the world of Skyrim it's possible to reason with them and trade with them even if game mechanics don't allow it.

Also, the fact they carry gold around as well as in locked chests suggest they do have some use for human currency.
Author:  cypruss11 [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lore and Information on Giants?
I found this

Oh mighty tundrastrider!
How you and your mighty tusked beast silhouette against the great orange expanse.
Thundering footsteps herald your herd. Man and beast blazing trail together.
One in nature, each relying upon the other, more than just man and beast, but equals who need one another to survive.
How I long to run across the tundra in their mighty wake.
That would truly be my greatest honor.
The morning would be spent gathering dyes to paint our mammoths and then carve the fiercest images into their tusks.
Then it would be time for the skeever hunt. Our clubs would rain down upon the rat pests smashing the life out of them.
In the evening could sit around the campfire and I would regale those nearby with songs of their majesty and grace.
They would let me sample of the mammoth's cheese. A food so foul yet with healing properties so great.
We'd snack on the roasted skeever we'd freshly caught that day before laying under the stars to sleep.
I'd slowly fade to dream nested in the radiating heat of mammoth fur. It's cold resisting properties keeping me snug.
What a grand time we would have.

Unknown

And it may just be me, but I have a suspicion this was written by a giant.
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