What are the real world influences on the races of Tamriel?

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2011 3:24 am

I've seen discussion on other forums about the origins of the concepts of the 10 Elder Scrolls playable races. While some are fairly easy to place, for example the Imperials or Nords, others are more difficult and this raises the question are they influenced by a real world culture/peoples at all? I'd love to hear what others think on this issue, but here is my view:

Humans:
Obviously Bethesda is compelled to include a human equivalent in their game. It simply follows that because the entire market is human, may would like to play as a human. The Imperials have a strong Roman influence in Morrowind (culture-wise), while still holding the appearance of anglo-saxons, and in Oblivion are very traditional fantasy/medieval. The Nords are also easy to place. In Morrowind there is a stronger Woad feel about them, that was refined into a Scandinavian/Viking presence in Oblivion. The Redguards too are fairly simple. They are to me, based on traditional middle eastern/Arabic culture, just reading about them makes me think Scheherazade.

Elves:
Again, Elves are much a part of the gaming and fantasy culture of our world and Beth. couldn't leave them out. I've seen people who think the Elves represent an Asian side of Tamriel, and I can sort-of see why in Morrowind, but in Oblivion they are much more Western-fantasy based.I like the way that Beth. has broken the traditional elf (Aldmer by their books) down into a couple of races and added their own personal touch. The Bosmer are obviously the most traditional elves, but Beth has really made them true tree-huggers through the Green Pact (really nice and original in my opinion). The Altmer cover the more stereotypical high-magic half of traditional elves. They aren't the super strong magical tolkienesque elves, they're more balanced and more flawed although they draw on similarities culture and characteristic-wise. The Orcs of Tamriel are elves interestingly enough. Perhaps Beth. found inspiration from Tolkien's Uruk-hai? I like this fresh take on the Orcs that is provided by the series, it's something done quite well that still meets the need for Orcs as one of the most common races in fantasy today. Finally the Dunmer are the last piece of the puzzle. Perhaps Beth. was inspired by Snowblind's Drow? Regardless, the Dunmer represent an interesting culture created uniquely for TES by Bethesda, and that's one of the reasons why I'm a fan of the elves in general.

Beasts:
The beats races are something I feel is also fairly unique to TES. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even though it's not unheard of to have humanoid beasts in other games, Bethesda have done it best. I'm interested to see if anyone can draw a line between the beast races and a real-world culture. I think the Khajiiti seem middle eastern or Mongol simply because of the climate they live in, but that might just be me.

So what do you think about this issue?

(NB: As a final note I don't want a huge race debate about which is better, just opinions on where the conception of the concepts occurred and where they might have been built from).

Edit: Just a minor presentation fix :wink:

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VirtualWeasel · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2011 5:00 am

Imperials= Romans
Nords=Northern people of Europe (Barbarians in history)
Khajiits=India indians, maybe Egyptians
Argonians=Native-Americans
Dunmer=Middle-Easterners, maybe
Bosmer=Southern Native-Americans (South America)
Altmer= A vague representation of French, Belgian, Dutch
Bretons= The English or perhaps modern-day Americans
Redguards= Obviously African-Americans or Africans
Orcs= Savage, barbaric people (Maybe represented from old, savage African tribe warriors. I can't see them as European barbarians)

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2011 5:16 am

VirtualWeasel wrote:

Argonians=Native-Americans

Hmm, nice thought, although I was thinking central american like Aztec, Mayan and Inca civilisation (probably because of the image I have of the environment of Black Marsh and of South America).

VirtualWeasel wrote:

Bosmer=Southern Native-Americans (South America)

Because of the cannibalism? (I mean that in a completely non-offensive way, I am referring to the human sacrifice)

VirtualWeasel wrote:

Bretons= The English or perhaps modern-day Americans

Oops, I forgot the Bretons (it's the half elf, half human thing

). I think the human-elf cross is also a part of modern fantasy-game culture and an obvious choice. They do appear very human and Anglo-Saxon(ish) so I agree with you here Weasel. (The word Breton could refer to the county [Brittany] in what is now France, or just the Brits.)

VirtualWeasel wrote:

Orcs= Savage, barbaric people (Maybe represented from old, savage African tribe warriors. I can't see them as European barbarians)

I can't see them as European either, I've seen Mongol suggested or perhaps African tribes as you said.

VirtualWeasel · **Posted:** Sun May 01, 2011 7:06 am

VirtualWeasel wrote:

Bretons= The English or perhaps modern-day Americans

Oops, I forgot the Bretons (it's the half elf, half human thing

). I think the human-elf cross is also a part of modern fantasy-game culture and an obvious choice. They do appear very human and Anglo-Saxon(ish) so I agree with you here Weasel. (The word Breton could refer to the county [Brittany] in what is now France, or just the Brits.)[/quote]
I like your reference to Brittany :mrgreen:

That's pretty clever if I do say so myself. The Bretons are kind of tough to think about, since they could be a wide range of things.

JockoBeans · **Posted:** Tue May 03, 2011 11:11 pm

Bretons: English/French
Orcs: Russo-Mongol
Imperials: Roman or Holy Roman Empire (southern Germans)
Altmer: the ancient Etruscans :mrgreen:

Dunmer: Middle-easterners
Argonians: South-east Asians
Bosmer: Welsh/Pict/Celt
Nords: Norse/Dane/Saxon
Khajiit: Indio/Egyptians
Redguards: a combination of North and South African with some east Asian and European aspects.

Jingles · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 11:27 am

The way I see it:

Bretons - They were blatantly medieval england in Daggerfall, but they got a makeover in Morrowind which made their names all french. So I guess medieval France.

Imperials - Rome. OBVIOUSLY.

Dunmer - Carthage/Achaemenid Persia.

Dwemer - Assyria

Nords: Norse/Celts.

Bosmer: Medieval Wales. Minus the cannibalism, anyway.(along with Tolkein's elves actually)

Khajits - Mixture of pre-colonial Indian and generic medieval middle eastern culture.

Orcs - Klingons. :lol:

The rest: No idea.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 12:24 pm

So far we've got agreement on Imperials (Roman) and Bretons (British/French) and to a lesser extent on Khajiit (Indian/Middle Eastern), Nords (Norse + other undecided influences) and Bosmer (Welsh - new idea to me though).

Interesting ideas guys, keep them coming :mrgreen:

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JockoBeans · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 6:19 am

I said Etruscans for the Altmer because the Etruscans are the only race I know that had towers as a form of living structure.

Etrusca or Tuscany means "land of towers"

Goblin voice · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 8:08 am

*clearing throat*... hrm... Breton :wink:

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 8:19 am

So do you agree with me then? (On the Brittany reference I made earlier)

Goblin voice · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 3:56 pm

OblivionDuruza wrote:

So do you agree with me then? (On the Brittany reference I made earlier)

Is it allways nice price on burger king? (swedish commersial refference) :mrgreen:

But... yes... I do do ( :lol:

) that...

Eltee · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 10:54 pm

The Redguard culture is seemingly based off of North African Islamic (just a distinction, no hatin'!) Berbers in Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.

zzfallens · **Posted:** Thu May 05, 2011 11:35 pm

This is just my take on it. Not being racist just comparing cultures.

Imperials - Romans/Americans (really just because of the accent)
Orcs - Barbarians/caveman
Nords - Vikings/Scandinavians
Argonians - Spanish/South Americans
Khajiits - Egyptians
Redguards - Arabic/African
Dunmer - Russian
Bosmer - Mixture between Native Americans and Chinese
Altmer - Japanese
Bretons - French/British, specifically the people from Brittany, France, that are literally called Bretons.

JockoBeans · **Posted:** Fri May 06, 2011 6:47 am

zzfallens wrote:

Dunmer - Russian

Huh?

That is the last race I would have thought they would have resembled. I am not nagging, it is your opinion. :mrgreen:

zzfallens · **Posted:** Fri May 06, 2011 2:25 pm

JockoBeans wrote:

zzfallens wrote:

Dunmer - Russian

Huh?

That is the last race I would have thought they would have resembled. I am not nagging, it is your opinion. :mrgreen:

I don't know, the Dunmer seem to want be alone and hate they empire. They are also very self righteous. Sort of like the russians.

Jingles · **Posted:** Fri May 06, 2011 2:37 pm

Yeah I don't get the Russian comparison either. Also peeps be puttin too much stock in the Breton/Brittany thing. The only real link is the name, and it's only called Bretagne (Brittany) because of the tribes of Britons that lived there in the Roman period. I've been to Brittany myself, and culturally it's really no different from the rest of France. I think Bretons are simply generic medieval europeans.

Goblin voice · **Posted:** Fri May 06, 2011 3:07 pm

Jingles wrote:

Yeah I don't get the Russian comparison either. Also peeps be puttin too much stock in the Breton/Brittany thing. The only real link is the name, and it's only called Bretagne (Brittany) because of the tribes of Britons that lived there in the Roman period. I've been to Brittany myself, and culturally it's really no different from the rest of France. I think Bretons are simply generic medieval europeans.

Have you not noticed that many Breton names seem Frensh? :wink:

Jingles · **Posted:** Fri May 06, 2011 4:20 pm

In High Rock itself they all have Saxon names however, like King Eadwyre - the old english version of Edward.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 4:03 am

Many people are saying English/French, these two nations were dominant in the Middle Ages so I like where Jingles is coming from.

Goblin voice · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 7:35 am

Jingles wrote:

Yeah I don't get the Russian comparison either. Also peeps be puttin too much stock in the Breton/Brittany thing. The only real link is the name, and it's only called Bretagne (Brittany) because of the tribes of Britons that lived there in the Roman period. I've been to Brittany myself, and culturally it's really no different from the rest of France. I think Bretons are simply generic medieval europeans.

Jingles wrote:

In High Rock itself they all have Saxon names however, like King Eadwyre - the old english version of Edward.

I'm convinced :wink:

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 8:42 am

I had an interesting thought. The Altmer could be a bit like the English and the Chimer/Dunmer could be a bit like the Australians and Americans. Perhaps the exodus of the Chimer is somewhat symbolic of the divergence of the English culture (Aldmer) into the different cultures that we see today.

Just a thought :wink:

.

Goblin voice · **Posted:** Sun May 08, 2011 8:47 am

But if you look at the lore-image of the altmer:

Spoiler:

it doesn't really remind (at least me) of the english...

but alas... I have been wrong before :lol:

JockoBeans · **Posted:** Mon May 09, 2011 7:14 pm

I can't really say that the Bretons are like the Saxons. They share similiar sames in High Rock, but their culture is quite different.

OblivionDuruza · **Posted:** Tue May 10, 2011 7:06 am

Guys, just remember were looking for influences, not a real life version. When conceiving the Bretons, for instance, Bethesda may have been influenced by the Saxons, but still made an original race :wink:

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MARS · **Posted:** Sat May 14, 2011 11:05 am

Jingles wrote:

In High Rock itself they all have Saxon names however, like King Eadwyre - the old english version of Edward.

That is Daggerfall lore. Lore has changed a lot since Daggerfalll.

What are the real world influences on the races of Tamriel?
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