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Further - it appears if you kill the Emperor prior to the Legion's possible quest-line; then Elisif is not proclaimed High Queen of Skyrim.

(Further - that is direct violation of the Moot, where Ulfric did not claim to be high King until the Moot would assemble yet the Emperor can merely say Elisif is the High Queen?)

It seems that the Moot would declare both High King or Queen on a vote (Ulfric Stormcloaks states that even though he isn't High King - he'll act like it in order to rebuild the country). But it really shows that the Empire (if they win) control Skyrim.

No Moot, No traditions, No Election; just a foreign Emperor declaring a widow High Queen because her husband was an Imperial ally and thus she is an Imperial Ally.

It reminds me of how Kings of Morrowind was set up - they're basically Imperial puppets hand-chosen by the Emperor. So Ulfric, even if you don't like him, was basically saying the truth.

The Empire wins? The Empire chooses what Nord is 'good enough' for Skyrim - the Nords can't choose.

Still think that an independent Skyrim is good for the Thalmor?

Jarl Ulfric challengend the king to a duel, stunned him with a dragon shout, and killed him. The empire thought using the dragon power was unfair, and the duel unjust, and started a war.

I guess the people of Cyrodill have no feeling towards it, because I don't see Ulfric marching into Cyrodill.

I see you forget such things as 'Democracy of the Nobles' or 'Democracy of the Bourgeois" or 'Democracy of the workers'.

That would be a democracy of the nobles, where the nobles choose and elect - they have their privileges.

The progressive side of it is that the nobles of their own nation choose what they want.

Of course then another revolution must take place where the people have the power.

But search up "The Golden Liberty"

No where, dose the empire ever say he challenged him, in fact their stroy, is he came in, used the shout left.

Surely the fact that we see Torygg in Sovngarde proves that the duel between him and Ulfric happened and it wasn't an assassination?

'Sovngarde, Shor told him, can be entered by any Nord who dies valiantly in honorable combat.'
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sovngar ... xamination

To be honest I don't see the Empire surviving much longer no matter what the outcome of the war in Skyrim is. Both the Empire and the Thalmor are rebuilding their forces, but the Thalmor have been doing a very good job of alienating the Empire from the two provinces that aided it the most in the Great War. I don't think the imperial legion can hold or re-take Skyrim, and protect Cyrodiil from the Thalmor at the same time. I would say that Ulfric has a better chance with a independant Skyrim (which really isn't under direct threat of attack from the Thalmor except by sea.) of beating the Thalmor eventually than the Empire does.


And hi all, first post

It's true - he's a picture of him in Sovngarde.

I have not seen him in there... but I'm just saying what the empire is saying plus, the dule that Ufric used, is out of date and has not been used for ages, which they are saying makes it invaild

basicly neither side is right or wrong



The problem many have, is Ufric the right man?

I agree the empire seems to be falling.

Also awsome 1st post


And dose he have anythin to say? I must know.

The duel is out of date?

I'm assmuing you mean the Thu'um; which has been in use since before the First Era.

All the difference is that the Greybeards choose who can train for the usage of the Thu'um.

The Imperials have never used the Thu'um, the exception is Tiber Septim.

But really, how does it make it invalid?






So far he's the only man in Skyrim willing to fight, the problem is that he let his idealism get to him.

But yes; I think he's fairly right for the job. I just wish he handled the organization better.





I don't know as of yet.

I do want to point out I'm not aginst ufric.


No the tradition of fighting for leader ship, has not happen since before the first moot, the dule is out of date

they have not used it in many years, nothing to do with shouts.





like i said the problem many have, not evre one

They still fight for leadership in Solstheim.

Yes, but its not to beomce hihg king is it?

thats a defreint thing complety

There hasn't been fighting for the rulership of High King mainly because they're hand-picked by the Emperor.

Ever since the fall of the First Empire and the Septim Empire ruling over Skyrim - has the High King been hand-picked.

Yes hince the old dule is old AND out of date

Not really out of date as much as attempting to take power in ones own hands - rather than letting an Emperor hand-pick a King rather than the Nordic people.

Uhh the Nordic pepole have NEVER picked their king, it has always been by

A. killig the high king your self
B. Moot: leaders pick not pepole
C. Empire


It is out of date, has not been used in forever, its kind of like laws in the USA, there are some in some states that have never been taken down about beating your wife and such, they are out of date, but where never said to be "no loner the rule"

its a gray area

By 'Nordic People'; I refer to the Moot because no where in the Elder Scrolls is there direct democracy.

So an indirect Democracy is what I'll be referring to; as a Council of Nords (Nobleman they may be) choose the King/Emperor/High King rather than a foreign Emperor.

But 'out of date' is referring to its either ineffective or a practice that shouldn't be preformed due to its age.

What I am saying is NO one is following it

here is the proof, not one person at all has ever said he won but cheated, at all, none, no one, there for they dont care he used the shout to win the dule, they dont care he did the dule

The jarls them selfs wont back him eve when it is a tradition, why? cause they think its out of date, no logner used.

A Nord-run Skyrim would be a sight to behold; in the words of King Theoden..."Let them come". It took the Empire 10 years to siege Solitude, and the only reason they succeeded was because someone betrayed Potema (not supporting her at all, just saying that's how it happened).

When it comes to what Ulfric says, he also told me that he'll respect what the Moot says. He may night like/agree with the process, but he's not going to override it, it seems.